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[TCML] Re: Tesla Digest, Vol 12, Issue 37
Subject: Newby drowning with information overload & making first post.
Hi all, I decided to try my hand at a TC about 1.5 years ago & began to
educate myself on the art of coiling. I joined this list a few months back
in hopes to gain a clearer understanding of how to do what I am trying to
do...build a TC but in the process I'm finding myself more and more
brainblocked as the days and months go by and I'm a bit intimidated with
posting due to my confusion with some of the more simpler things like
plugging the correct figures into a TC calculator to get some specific
results but I have to get on with it or forget it so I'm posting in hopes I
can get some direction. I have probably digested close to the volume of the
library of congress in TC information and coilers websites and projects and
that may be part of my problem. Would be a shame to give up though as I
already have made a nice looking 3.5 inch diameter secondary that is 21
inches tall wound with .028 wire at 29 wraps per inch = 609 turns and have
made a fairly good looking 16 inch diameter toroid that is 6 inches deep &
all mounted on a nice tier like stand. It beckons me to finish it daily. I
have a 15000 volt NST rated 30 ma for my power supply and a gaggle of caps,
wire, connectors etc. I also have a asynchronous vacuume motor for building
my RSG and (6) 1.25 x 3 inch copper tubes for a stationary gap. Also have
1/4 inch copper refr. tubing for a primary coil. The caps I have aquired may
be all wrong though..not sure; at the least I think they would be ok for the
line voltage protection I will need. The caps I have aquired are as follows:
(1) 7500 WVDC 0.1uF oil filled, (1) 12000 VDC .1MU-F pyranol cap, (4) 2000
VDC .25MFD caps (small appx 1.5w x 1d x 2h)(all w/ceramic type posts). Also
have aquired (2) 100watt 750ohm wire wound resistors I thought would work
for my power supply protection. At this point I came up with 404.0443220 for
the freq of my secondary but not sure thats right and I'm still unsure what
I need for capacitance for the tank circuit. With what I have provided in
info so far can someone help me get pointed in the right direction for what
I need. Any help appreciated in advance. Thanks, Jerry (mdg11fbf@xxxxxxxxx)
2008/10/28 <tesla-request@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Send Tesla mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tesla digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Argon Cannon Extra Credit (Phil Rembold)
> 2. variac (jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> 3. RE: variac (Richard Schmuke)
> 4. Re: variac (bunnykiller)
> 5. Re: variac (David Speck)
> 6. Re: variac (Phillip Slawinski)
> 7. Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (David Rieben)
> 8. Re: First light, small VTTC (futuret@xxxxxxx)
> 9. Variac (jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> 10. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Phillip Slawinski)
> 11. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Peter Terren)
> 12. Open Day with big TC (Peter Terren)
> 13. R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC (mazzilli vladimiro)
> 14. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Yurtle Turtle)
> 15. Re: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC (futuret@xxxxxxx)
> 16. Re: Javatc updated to version 11.9 (bartb)
> 17. Re: Javatc updated to version 11.9 (bartb)
> 18. RE: Variac (Garry neeley)
> 19. Re: Variac (bunnykiller)
> 20. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (DC Cox)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Phil Rembold" <prembold@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:21:05 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Argon Cannon Extra Credit
> Jeff,
>
> Thanks for the nice plug, I'll pass the word to Bill ...
>
> --
> Phil Rembold
> 817-831-0998
> TCBFW
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Jeff W. Parisse <workshop@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > TCML,
> >
> > I'd like to give credit where credit is due.
> >
> > Bill Emery Jr. did ALL the gas work for the Argon Cannon. Based on my
> > design, he and Phil Remboldt prototyped the unit at Phil's place in Texas
> > and we hooked it up for the cameras here in Hollywood.
> >
> > Bill Emery Jr. and Phil Remboldt are fantastic engineers, clever
> > technicians and fun people who really kick started that project into high
> > gear.
> >
> > Thanks guys!
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx (tesla list)
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:01:34 +0000
> Subject: [TCML] variac
> Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on. grr
> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go from
> 0-140 volts.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jay H.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Richard Schmuke" <rdj@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:25:09 -0500
> Subject: RE: [TCML] variac
> What do you have plugged it to the Variac , does it overload the breaker
> under load or is it a inductive load when you plug it in??
>
> Rich , KDØZZ
> Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling or facts are transmission errors.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:02 PM
> To: tesla list
> Subject: [TCML] variac
>
> Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on.
> grr
> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go from
> 0-140 volts.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jay H.
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bunnykiller <bunnikillr@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:02:44 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> Hey Jay...
>
> there are 2 possible situations going on here.
> 1. Sometimes a power surge ( rapid current usage) occurs when power is
> applied to a Variac of substantial size.
> 2. The load attached to the Variac could be pulling more than 15 A. With
> the combination of both variac and load pulling current at once is a bit too
> much for the breaker.
>
> If you have access to the breaker ( instead of calling Maint. each time it
> goes off) try setting the variac to 50% with the load NOT attached to the
> Variac, turn on Variac, turn Variac to 0%, attach load and then bring up
> the voltage to prefered running capacity. If that doesnt work, repeat the
> process but at a starting point of 80-85 instead of 50.
> And a final idea, see if one of the physics or electronics labs has higher
> current sockets available.... I'd try the electronics labs first ( they
> will more likely to want to see it and help if they can).
>
> Scot D
>
> jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail. I thought that
>> the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so needless to say I had
>> to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on. grr
>> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
>> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go from
>> 0-140 volts.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jay H.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tesla mailing list
>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Speck <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:55:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> Jay,
>
> You should put an ammeter on the unit to see how much you are pulling. You
> have to adjust your load so that it doesn't draw more than 20 amps. Kinda
> like having a car that theoretically could go 120, even though you can't
> legally drive it above 65 in most places.
>
> A big Variac like this can sometimes trip the breaker immediately upon
> being powered up, even with no load on it. This is due to a residual
> magnetic state left occasionally in the core from the last time it was
> turned off. A way to prevent these nuisance trips is to wire a beefy 10 ohm
> power resistor in series with the Variac primary which is then shorted out
> by a suitably rated contactor (power relay) driven by the same power switch
> as the Variac. The inherent mechanical delay on the contactor armature
> gives a few AC cycles at restricted current through the Variac and allows
> the magnetic state of the Variac core to normalize without tripping the
> breaker.
> Dave
>
> jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail. I thought that
>> the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so needless to say I had
>> to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on. grr
>> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
>> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go from
>> 0-140 volts.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jay H.
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Phillip Slawinski" <pslawinski@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:18:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> Add a breaker that is a smaller value than 20A. In your case that will
> probably be a 15A breaker. Some power strips have 15A breakers, maybe that
> would work for you.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 15:01, <jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> > I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> > needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on.
> grr
> > Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> > take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> from
> > 0-140 volts.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay H.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "David Rieben" <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:50:03 -0500
> Subject: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> else have any more light to shead on this thread?
>
> David Rieben
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: futuret@xxxxxxx
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:33:38 -0400
> Subject: Re: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> Vladi,
>
> There are so many factors to consider. Some tubes need more
> feedback than others. My experiment was to test the idea
> of using a high position for the grid coil which some folks
> have found helpful. So far in tests with this small coil I didn't
> see any advantage but of course this coil still needs more
> optimizing in general.
>
> I used 19.7 turns on the primary I think, and the coil height
> is about 2" of 16awg wire. The secondary is 2.5" x 8.875"
> wound with 28awg wire for about 620 turns or so. No toroid.
> The grid coil and primary are both 4.75" dia. The grid coil
> uses 20 turns of 24awg magnet wire tapped at 12 turns.
> MOT is a small 2000V unit with level shifter. Filament transformer
> is 6.3V output, so I use a 50 ohm dropping resistor on the 120V
> input to drop the output to 5V for the 4-125A vacuum tube.
> The RF bypass cap is 0.001uF at 5kV mica, the grid leak cap
> and filament bypass cap are both 0.001uF at 2.5kV.
> No staccato.
>
> John
>
>
> -------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vladimiro Mazzilli <V.Mazzilli@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 5:07 am
> Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
>
>
> So seems better to use thin wire to have a good grid driving, but not too
> tall
> in order to no decrease the spark length?
>
> Vladi
>
> ----------------
> I powered up my new small 4-125A VTTC and got 4" sparks
> so far. They are the fuzzy type sparks. More tuning is needed.
> I tried removing the MOT shunts, but the sparks didn't get
> much longer so far. The tube plate gets red which is not surprising
> for a 4-125A tube. I tied the grids together on the tube, and
> I'm using 1500 ohms for the grid leak R. I tried 2500 ohms but
> that gave very weak sparks. On a previous coil which used
> a 4-250A tube, I got the same spark output with grids
> tied together as when feeding the screen grid from a
> dropping resistor. That coil also used a 1500 ohm grid leak resistor.
> There is no toroid on the coil. Some tests I did in the past
> showed that even the choice of vacuum tube type can
> make the sparks either fuzzy or sword-like. This may suggest
> that some parameter was not optimized for each tube.
>
> I did a quick experiment with a raised grid coil. Normally
> I allow about 1/2" space between the primary and grid coil.
> I raised the grid coil by about 3" as a test. The sparks
> got much weaker. So I moved the grid coil tap so I used
> 20 turns instead of 12. This increased the spark length
> almost to what it was with the lowered grid coil. This
> secondary is only 8.875" long, so raising the grid coil
> by 3" is a lot for this small coil. I tried various grid
> coil heights and generally speaking, the spark output
> varied with the grid coil height. A higher grid coil
> gave weaker output sparks. These results are
> preliminary because the coil still needs more tuning.
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx (tesla list)
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:33:30 +0000
> Subject: [TCML] Variac
> Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending error.
> so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
>
> Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time of
> the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird sound was
> coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
> mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
>
> How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit is
> rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
>
> How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what you
> want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
>
> Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I plug
> it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
>
> Thanks,
> Jay. H
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Phillip Slawinski" <pslawinski@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:36:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> David,
>
> I've made this mistake before. I was playing with my 6" coil in the
> garage,
> and I ignored the smell. I left the garage with a sore throat, and
> coughing. This was while the coil was poorly tuned, once I got the coil
> properly tuned it stopped making so much ozone. I haven't even noticed an
> ozone problem with my VTTC. That seems to produce far more NOx than ozone.
> At least the NOx does not smell as terrible as Ox :)
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 16:50, David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> >
> > David Rieben
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Peter Terren" <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:58:03 +0900
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> Odour sensation fatigues rapidly so you stop smelling noxious stuff after a
> short while. There are physiological processes in the body that use nitric
> oxide as a local vasodilator and this is sometimes used therapeutically by
> inhalation and nitrous oxide N2O is an anaesthetic agent so presumably
> neither of these cause coughing. NO2 I am not so sure about and may be a
> culprit. The only time I have had similar bronchospasm is with burning
> sulphur with ? sulphur dioxide formation.
> Fortunately I have the space and weather to run my TC's outdoors.
> Peter
> www.tesladownunder.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rieben" <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> ... As most of us are
> already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> operation of Tesla coils,
> ..... today while I
> was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> away pretty promptly. ......
> David Rieben
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Peter Terren" <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:08:30 +0900
> Subject: [TCML] Open Day with big TC
> I had an open day attended by 70-80 people. While not a true Teslathon, the
> highlight was the 18 inch Tesla coil show. That segment started with a demo
> of sparks onto a fluoro, burning a string of CD's, burning some wood held in
> my hand and the popular Dalek cage. After that everyone got the chance to
> have their pic taken under a firing TC so there were about 30 shots of this.
> I used a long exposure of 5 seconds. Initially the flash goes off to catch
> the people under the TC whic is off. They then run away and I run to turn
> the TC on for about a second. It's a nice effect and very popular with kids
> of all ages.
> I also had about 50 of my other projects on display.
> Details and pics here.
> http://tesladownunder.com/Tesla%20display.htm#Open08
> Peter
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "mazzilli vladimiro" <vladmiro.mazzilli@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:10:43 +0100
> Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
> Hi John,
>
> You said that the primary has 19.7 turns of 16awg wire, how method do
> you use to tune the system? I normally use magnet wire also for the
> primary 19awg or two or three smaller paralleled between, and I use a
> spacer (another magnet wire of 24,26awg) that I remove at the end of
> winding. Then I scratch the enamel on the last windings and look for the
> best tuning. But how do you succeed with an insulated wire? I'm curious
> for the number 19.7!!
>
> Cheers
>
> Vladi
>
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] Per conto
> di futuret@xxxxxxx
> Inviato: martedì 28 ottobre 2008 23.34
> A: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Oggetto: Re: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
>
> Vladi,
>
> There are so many factors to consider. Some tubes need more feedback
> than others. My experiment was to test the idea of using a high
> position for the grid coil which some folks have found helpful. So
> far in tests with this small coil I didn't see any advantage but of
> course this coil still needs more optimizing in general.
>
> I used 19.7 turns on the primary I think, and the coil height is about
> 2" of 16awg wire. The secondary is 2.5" x 8.875" wound with 28awg wire
> for about 620 turns or so. No toroid. The grid coil and primary are
> both 4.75" dia. The grid coil uses 20 turns of 24awg magnet wire tapped
> at 12 turns. MOT is a small 2000V unit with level shifter. Filament
> transformer is 6.3V output, so I use a 50 ohm dropping resistor on the
> 120V input to drop the output to 5V for the 4-125A vacuum tube. The RF
> bypass cap is 0.001uF at 5kV mica, the grid leak cap and filament bypass
> cap are both 0.001uF at 2.5kV. No staccato.
>
> John
>
>
> -------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vladimiro Mazzilli <V.Mazzilli@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 5:07 am
> Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
>
>
> So seems better to use thin wire to have a good grid driving, but not
> too tall
> in order to no decrease the spark length?
>
> Vladi
>
> ----------------
> I powered up my new small 4-125A VTTC and got 4" sparks
> so far. They are the fuzzy type sparks. More tuning is needed. I tried
> removing the MOT shunts, but the sparks didn't get much longer so far.
> The tube plate gets red which is not surprising for a 4-125A tube. I
> tied the grids together on the tube, and I'm using 1500 ohms for the
> grid leak R. I tried 2500 ohms but that gave very weak sparks. On a
> previous coil which used a 4-250A tube, I got the same spark output with
> grids tied together as when feeding the screen grid from a dropping
> resistor. That coil also used a 1500 ohm grid leak resistor. There is
> no toroid on the coil. Some tests I did in the past showed that even
> the choice of vacuum tube type can make the sparks either fuzzy or
> sword-like. This may suggest that some parameter was not optimized for
> each tube.
>
> I did a quick experiment with a raised grid coil. Normally
> I allow about 1/2" space between the primary and grid coil.
> I raised the grid coil by about 3" as a test. The sparks
> got much weaker. So I moved the grid coil tap so I used
> 20 turns instead of 12. This increased the spark length
> almost to what it was with the lowered grid coil. This secondary is
> only 8.875" long, so raising the grid coil by 3" is a lot for this small
> coil. I tried various grid coil heights and generally speaking, the
> spark output varied with the grid coil height. A higher grid coil gave
> weaker output sparks. These results are preliminary because the coil
> still needs more tuning.
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> Only that NOx can form nitric acid in your moist nose and lungs.
>
> More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_oxide
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > From: David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 4:50 PM
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought
> > that
> > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of
> > us are
> > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly
> > ventillated
> > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs,
> > like
> > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today
> > while I
> > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather
> > uncontrol-
> > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > did with today's "odorless" experience,
> > though. Anyone
> > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> >
> > David Rieben
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: futuret@xxxxxxx
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:16:34 -0400
> Subject: Re: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
> Hi Vladi,
>
> I cannot tune this primary. I tune using the capacitor. I probably
> should have made some taps or something, but I made it fixed at
> 19.7 turns. I just picked what I thought would be a good figure
> based on a reasonable tank Q. The primary wire is PVC insulated
> wire. It's 19.7 to make it convenient to connect to the capacitor
> from a physical layout standpoint. My reasoning was that anywhere
> from 18 to 21 turns would give similar performance as long as
> the system is tuned OK with the capacitor. I added a variable
> cap to fine tune the system. Possibly I have to add another
> fixed cap or something because the performance is rather wimpy.
> I may not have enough tuning range. When I turn up the power,
> the spark reaches a certain length then plateaus, so I probably
> need more tank capacitance.
> I tried installing a 4-400A tube and it didn't help the performance
> much, so I suspect a tuning issue.
> However I know this 4-400A tube is somewhat defective (weak).
> The secondary resonant frequency is about 1Mhz.
>
> John
> ----------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mazzilli vladimiro <vladmiro.mazzilli@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: 'Tesla Coil Mailing List' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 7:10 pm
> Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> You said that the primary has 19.7 turns of 16awg wire, how method do
> you use to tune the system? I normally use magnet wire also for the
> primary 19awg or two or three smaller paralleled between, and I use a
> spacer (another magnet wire of 24,26awg) that I remove at the end of
> winding. Then I scratch the enamel on the last windings and look for the
> best tuning. But how do you succeed with an insulated wire? I'm curious
> for the number 19.7!!
>
> Cheers
>
> Vladi
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:04:24 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Javatc updated to version 11.9
> Hi Scot,
>
> For the rotary, I use no arc voltage equations since it is a timing
> function. Rounded electrodes will get a little closer to alignment before
> firing than flat electrodes will. The flat electrode approaching sides will
> arc sooner. But this is no big deal as even rounded electrodes do this also,
> but only to a slightly lesser degree depending on size and curvature. I
> think rounded electrodes will last longer for the same power level since hot
> spots should be lessened due to the mass at the edge. This is probably the
> main benefit of rounding the electrodes. Performance won't change between
> the two, just edge life.
>
> I rounded the tungsten electrodes on my rotary. I placed the rod in a drill
> and spun the end on a large file moving the drill from 90 degress down to
> almost horizontal until I got a decent rounding. Then spun the electrode in
> stainless steel to polish up the end. Worked great and easier than I thought
> it was going to be (still a lot of work).
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
> bunnykiller wrote:
>
>> Hey Bart...
>>
>> I have been using the online version of the Javatc alot in tha last few
>> days crunching numbers for my next coil and noticed that in the static gap
>> area there is the option of flat vs. round electrodes and how it makes a
>> serious difference in arc propigation distances. My question is.... on
>> rotory gaps, does the usage of flat geometries as opposed to rounded
>> electrodes make a difference too?? Seems that with flat electrodes in a
>> rotory gap system would be prone to "pre-alignment of the electrode arc
>> jumping" to some degree. It definately showed up on my gap system ;)
>>
>> BTW... XP and Firefox 3.0 combination running JavaTC will shut down
>> Firefox completely on my computer.
>>
>> Scot D
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:16:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Javatc updated to version 11.9
> Hi Scott,
>
> Yep, Firefox 3.0.3 is fast. I stopped using Netscape a long time ago when
> version 6 came around (lazy and slow). IE6 did best up until Firefox came
> along. Now Firefox is about 3 times faster than IE.
>
> The VI distribution should run ok. It will first show a set of voltages
> with a base current of 1 amp. But it isn't finished at that point. It
> basically performed a low detail run to provide the base current and some
> inductances and it then continues a second run inserting this new base
> current. This final run increases the detail for a larger number of data
> points along the length of the coil and will replace the first set of
> numbers with more realistic values. At that point, it's done. Takes about 1
> or 2 minutes of crunching time.
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
> bunnykiller wrote:
>
>> Hey Bart...
>>
>> Back again, I downloaded Firefox 3.0.3 and retried JavaTC works very nice
>> and quick... alot faster than Netscape 7.0, 8.0 and Flock.
>>
>> Firefox 3.0.3 crunches the numbers in about 3-5 seconds as compared to the
>> 20 - 30 seconds for the Netscapes and Flock.
>> Didnt try the secondary voltage run...
>>
>> Scot D
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tesla mailing list
>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Garry neeley <bamacoiler@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:24:22 -0500
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Variac
> Philip suggested that yopu add a 15a breaker, I agree. If you wire a
> breaker in series with the primary the breaker you add should trip before
> the one in the panel and you should be safe.
> Garry Neeley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:33 PM
> To: tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [TCML] Variac
>
> Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending error.
> so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
>
> Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time of
> the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird sound was
> coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
> mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
>
> How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit is
> rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
>
> How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what you
> want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
>
> Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I plug
> it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
>
> Thanks,
> Jay. H
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bunnykiller <bunnikillr@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:08:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac
> Hey Jay...
>
> having the wiper somewhat in the middle of the windings seems to reduce the
> initial magnetic flux thru the core of the variac. Depending on how you have
> the Variac wired for output, it can be a healthy inital surge. If wired for
> say line voltage in and line voltage out at max rating, the surge is almost
> minimal when starting( turning on) the variac at full voltage since the
> wiper is at the end of the windings with little magnetic field flux being
> produced. If you have it wired for 120 in and 140 out at max settings, there
> is going to be the inital magnetic flux incurred to give you the 140 V out.
>
> The unit is rated for 22.5 amps current capacity, in other words it will
> handle a current of 22.5 amps max thru it to the load it is supplying. If
> you were to put a load on the variac that can draw more than 23 amps, the
> Variac will overheat and smoke and eventually die... most of the times,
> variac failure occurs where the wiper ( brush) is in contact with the
> windings, either the brush arcs out or the windings melt and break.
>
> Just wondering.... how do you have the variac wired up???? Did it come
> with a prewired wall plug attached, or did you have to put one on yourself?
> What brand is the Variac??
> Scot D
>
>
> jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending
>> error. so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
>>
>> Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time
>> of the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird sound
>> was coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
>> mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
>>
>> How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit is
>> rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
>>
>> How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what
>> you want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
>>
>> Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I plug
>> it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
>>
>> Thanks, Jay. H
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tesla mailing list
>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "DC Cox" <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:05:53 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> I've always said one has to be very careful using Tesla coils in apartment
> rooms, basements, closed garages, and other closed up or partially enclosed
> areas.
>
> I first experienced very similar experiences in 1962 - 1965 running coils
> in
> my basement without good ventilation. O3 is also considered carcinogenic,
> so long term
> effects have not been carefully studied.
>
> Solid state and IGBT type coils are much more efficient and dump much
> higher
> currents into the secondary inductor thus increasing the O3 effects.
>
> Use caution and stay healthy. If you have to run in an enclosed area,
> consider short operational periods of 10-15 sec, then use a fan to blast
> any
> O3 out a nearby window.
>
> Dr. Resonance
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:50 PM, David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> >
> > David Rieben
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
--
"FREEDOM"=The result of intention and action against tyranny. "Live Free -
Be Free"
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