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Tim, The middle can be open. I used to use an X type central support as you mentioned when I used ducting toroid. There is no rule for thickness of center plates, etc. It doesn't matter. Just be sure to connect the top of the secondary wire to the toroid or even through the X type support to the toroid if the X support is metal. The toroid donut can be hollow (air filled inside), it makes no difference. Usually they are hollow (much more lightweight). John -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Gilmore <tdg8934@xxxxxxxxx> To: mddeming <mddeming@xxxxxxx>; Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tue, Mar 24, 2015 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [TCML] Mid sized Tesla Coil - Done Thanks all for your excellent input on top loads - Toroids. Does the middle section have to be "filled in" with a metal object like a pie pan? I thought I saw a picture online that had an X or + shape middle section to reach out to the donut shape and hold it to the top of the secondary. If it has to be filled in with a metal surface like a pie pan, is there any rule on how thick it should be in the middle - or just enough to hold the donut shape in place? Also I saw online one design using filler material inside and outside of the donut shape. Should the donut not be hollow inside with air? Thanks - Tim _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla