# Re: [TCML] LMD Frequency

```"For the benefit of us ignoramuses[sp?]  maybe Jim can give us those two
frequencies for a typical coil which runs in the 'normal' mode at 120 kHz??
Might be educational....."

The claim of Handwerker and Meyl is that the LMD frequency would be 120 khz
* pi / 2.
pi / 2 is about 1.57.  So the resulting frequency should be near 188.4Khz.

But I am afraid what you might find is that the frequency is slightly
variant from that and it also might be EXTREMELY SENSITIVE.  If your coil
isn't very nicely engineered, you might have problems.

The thing that boggles my mind is that these two guys seem to be using
sinusoidal inputs for both frequencies.  This is difficult for me to wrap
my mind around.  Tesla did not use sinusoidal inputs.  He used capacitor
discharges (as most people here are also doing).  Capacitor discharges
produce sharp leading edge waves with a gradual relaxing tail.  The sharp
leading edge is the thing which disturbs the ether most, as Tesla
explained.  The higher the delta V (change in voltage over time), the
stronger the LMD wave becomes.  Higher peak-to-peak voltage in a sin wave
just happens to produce higher deltaV, but keep in mind it is *not
really*the high amplitude voltages that cause certain etheric
behaviors first
demonstrated by Tesla.  It is really because of the high dV.  So if you had
a mere 20 volts and could somehow make that 20 volts discharge through a
conductor INSTANTANEOUSLY ( zero time ), you would get a behavior similar
to infinite current and some CRAZY effects even with very little voltage.
We can't make 20 volts discharge instantaneously.  There is always time
factor due to resistance and impedance.  So we can simply make the full
amplitude voltage higher to bring about higher dV (increase Voltage or
decrease time to get higher dV).  These sharp changes are what the
physicists refer to as "transients".  Electrical Engineers should be
familiar with this term.

If someone here got their normally sparking Tesla coil to produce a
different kind of effect at the LMD frequency, I think it would be pretty
dang awesome.

I do not have high power tesla coils.  I use lower power to transmit
electricity wirelessly.  I never have sparks even. So I am ignorant to even
witness the effects used here.

- Jim

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:55 PM, Jim Houx <pha3zme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> John Jaw Howson said:
> "Perhaps you could explain further how these waves are used in the
> operation of a tesla coil so we might gain an understanding of what you are
>
> Ok.  The beginning of understanding comes when you consider a charged
> spherical antenna on a typical Tesla coil.  What happens when you have a
> charged antenna?  The antenna wants to discharge right?  So the beginning
> of current manifests as an electro-magnetic wave begins to propagate along
> the wire spiralling down the coil.  But what also happens at the exact same
> moment the discharge begins?  You get voltage drop.  As soon as the voltage
> begins to drop, the change in potential is "felt" by the topmost winding of
> the secondary.  This is a capacitive effect just like how change in voltage
> propagates across a capacitor plate.  Now this first winding suddenly has a
> potential change because of it being influenced by the voltage drop in the
> tower.  This is the beginning of the LMD wave.  Consider that the change in
> potential on the first winding will immediately influence the next winding,
> and then the next, and the next.. and so on... all the way down.  This is
> the LMD wave propagation.  And this thing moves faster the actual
> "electricity" (which is really a magnetic wave) moves through the wire.
> This means that the LMD wave will reach the Earth before the TEM (the
> electricity as we are taught to think of it) reaches the earth.
>
> The result is very compable to super sonic jet.  Around Einstein's time
> people thought that you couldn't travel through air faster than speed of
> sound.  That is also why Einstein was following the same mentality.  But
> what happens now when we go faster than speed of sound?  The jet is like a
> wave propagating through air, yet the effect of the wave trails way
> behind.  Similarly in Tesla coil, LMD wave can propagate faster than charge
> carriers are able to respond with "current flow".  LMD wave always
> accelerates out ahead of the TEM wave, leaving the TEM wave behind.  Hence,
> you have two frequencies.  And the LMD wave is normally lost because we
> tune our devices to the TEM frequency.
>
> At least this is what Konstantin Meyl  and also Professor Handwerker from
> Italy has shown us.  Believe it or don't.  :D
>
> - Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:39 PM, <jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> Honestly,
>> I have taken several advanced E&M courses as part of my current courses
>> towards my physics degree and have never even heard the mention of the
>> terminology you are referring to and nor has my copy of the Griffiths E&M
>> text. Perhaps this is an advanced topic that one would learn of in graduate
>> school? Of which only a few list members have participated in for physics
>> specifically. So its not all that surprising that we did not recognize your
>> acronyms.
>> Perhaps you could explain further how these waves are used in the
>> operation of a tesla coil so we might gain an understanding of what you are
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John "Jay" Howson IV
>>
>>
>> "Why thank you, I will be happy to take those electrons off your hands."
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Houx" <pha3zme@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:01:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TCML] LMD Frequency
>>
>> Anyway moving on to real science per the work of Nikola Tesla. LMD means
>> Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric wave. It is the wave which propagates
>> through capacitors. Its the reason capacitors pass AC and not DC. Its
>> also the wave which traverses between conductors in a Tesla coil. Real
>> science has proven that all the same effects a Tesla coil makes can be
>> achieved by capacitors in series since a Tesla coil behaves so similar.
>>
>> Tesla coils actually have two main resonant frequencies. Evidently no one
>> here is aware of that. The frequency observed on an oscilloscope is the
>> Transverse Magneto Electric wave.
>>
>> I figured you boys ought to know what an LMD wave is since you build Tesla
>> coils.
>>
>> Do you even know the difference between a dielectric field and a magnetic
>> field?
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Gary Lau <glau1024@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh oh - Google found an unsavory link to a free energy forum peppered
>> > with those terms.
>> >
>> > Putting on my moderator's hat, I must remind folks that per the
>> > posting guidelines, pseudo-science (free energy) may not be discussed
>> > here. To the original point - there is NO frequency or mode of
>> > operation that is "too dangerous". Nothing magical happens at
>> > "special" frequencies, except for the fact that Tesla coils will ONLY
>> > work at their resonant frequency.
>> >
>> > Regards, Gary Lau
>> > MA, USA
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:55 AM, <jhowson4@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > What do these acronyms mean? a quick google search did not yeild any
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > John "Jay" Howson IV
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Why thank you, I will be happy to take those electrons off your
>> hands."
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Jim Houx" <pha3zme@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:01:46 AM
>> > > Subject: [TCML] LMD Frequency
>> > >
>> > > In the powerful sparking tesla coil configuration, what happens if you
>> > run
>> > > the Tesla coil at its LMD frequency instead of the TME frequency? Has
>> > > anyone tried this? Perhaps its too dangerous when using powerful
>> coils?
>> > >
>> > > - Jim
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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