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RE: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors wanted
In lieu of performing an experiment to see if there's any performance difference, I would just make a saturated solution. Just keep adding baking soda until no more dissolves.
Regards, Gary Lau
MA,USA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of H.S. J.
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:11 PM
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors wanted
>
> So, for the baking soda and water, what is a good ratio?
>
> --
> Thanks,
> ***********************************************
> Shelton Jacinto
> Email: hsheltonj@xxxxxxxxx
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:32:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors wanted
>
> I'm not an authority on this topic, but, there's plain tap water, deionized water, and
> distilled water, all very different. I believe that to be used as an insulating dielectric,
> several stringent requirements exist. Most importantly, it must be extremely pure
> and deionized, with a continuous deionizing filter pump. And beyond that, the
> charge and discharge cycles must be extremely brief. Our caps have some charge
> on them pretty much all the time.
>
> The person who suggested using plain tap water rather than brine was not
> suggesting using distilled or deionized water, and it wasn't clear whether there was
> any salt residue in the bottles.
>
> I didn't understand "If it is the results of minerals, how could this be repeated
> anywhere else?"
>
> Regards, Gary Lau
> MA, USA
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Jim Mora
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:09 PM
> > To: 'Tesla Coil Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors wanted
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> > I was under the impression that plain water (de-ionized or distilled0 is a
> > pretty good dielectric. If it is the results of minerals, how could this be
> > repeated anywhere else?
> >
> > Jim Mora
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Lau, Gary
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:35 AM
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors
> > wanted
> >
> > While studies have been made comparing the conductivities of various
> > electrolytes, it may be worthwhile to compare actual spark performance of
> > electrolytes. Someone recently mentioned to me off-list that his experience
> > was that plain water appeared to work as well as brine. I have no further
> > information about this; I can't comment on the purity of the plain water or
> > the accuracy and test conditions of the comparison.
> >
> > Who knows, it may just be a hasty observation, or it may be that electrolyte
> > losses at RF frequencies don't correlate to DC measurements. Or that all
> > such losses pale in comparison to gap losses. It _would_ be nice to use
> > just pure, non-corrosive water.
> >
> >
> > Regards, Gary Lau
> > MA, USA
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > > Behalf Of FIFTYGUY@xxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:32 AM
> > > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [TCML] Best bottle cap electrolytes, was re:HV capacitors wanted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/2/08 9:43:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > > pslawinski@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> > >
> > > >If you're stuck with glass bottle capacitors, you should try baking soda
> > and
> > > >water instead of salt and water. Supposedly baking soda is more
> > >
> > > >conductive.
> > >
> > >
> > > I found that hard to believe (I work for a company that manufactures
> > > electrolytic cells for on-site generation of chlorine gas from table
> > salt). A
> > > saturated NaCl solution has a conductivity of around 0.25 S/cm.
> > > I've also used the electrolytic process for rust removal, and it's
> > > generally agreed that sodium bicarbonate is one for the slowest-working
> > > electrolytes for that application. Sodium Carbonate (baking powder) works
> > more
> > > quickly.
> > > Here's a science fair project where various salts were evaluated for
> > > conductivity specifically for Tesla coil bottle capacitor applications:
> > >
> > > :http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/J0535.pdf
> > >
> > > BTW, Sodium Hydroxide would have 50% better conductivity than NaCl,
> > but
> > > it has a decreasing conductivity once you get over 20 percent
> > concentration.
> > > The conductivity of various salt solutions can be highly dependent on
> > > temperature, are typically non-linear, and as in the case of NaOH, can
> > have a
> > > local maximum with regards to concentration.
> > > Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) at the 37% azeotrope would have three times
> > the
> > > conductivity of saturated NaCl.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see if the conductivity of the electrolyte
> > in
> > > the bottle caps made any noticeable difference. After all, they represent
> > a
> > > pretty big surface area, and the spark gap has a dynamic impedance in the
> > > neighborhood of a few Ohms. Using more bottles that were smaller could
> > have
> > > just as large an effect as using a different electrolyte, and the would
> > also
> > > theoretically improve the AC impedance of the cap bank as well. Probably
> > also
> > > help mitigate heating of the glass in the caps as well.
> > >
> > > -Phil LaBudde
> >
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