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Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:36:50 -0700
From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
Hi DC,
Nope, no problems with the primary, but maybe that is because my VFD is
installed inside my control cabinet. It's a good distance from the coil.
The VFD itself isn't near the primary or coil and I've noticed no
problems with line noise. I do run a shielded cable from the motor to
the cabinet which may also be preventing problems.
Take care,
Bart
Tesla list wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:59:57 -0500
>From: resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>
>
>
>Does it seem to resist any problems induced by the primary? I tried an
>earlier VFD drive and the primary induced currents drove it nutso.
>
>DC
>
>Resonance Research Corp.
>www.resonanceresearch.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:11 PM
>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>
>
>
>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:52:51 -0700
>>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>
>>Hi DC,
>>
>>It operates on single phase input and outputs 3 phase. It's an inverter
>>with bells and whistles.
>>
>>Take care,
>>Bart
>>
>>Tesla list wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:31:53 -0500
>>>From: resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Does the VFD produce the 3 phase while operating off a single phase, 220
>>>volts input, or do you have 3 phase at your home?
>>>
>>>
>>>Dr. Resonance
>>>Resonance Research Corp.
>>>www.resonanceresearch.com
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 7:57 AM
>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:42:47 -0700
>>>>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>>My VFD is pretty darn standard. I insert 220 VAC (or 240, whatever)
>>>>single phase. The output of the VFD is 3-phase which is cabled directly
>>>>to a 2HP 3-phase motor. The output is 230 VAC 3-phase. T1, T2, T3, and
>>>>Ground (4-wires). The VFD does happen to be controlled by a PLC, but
>>>>this is not necessary. The only reason I use a PLC is to incorporate
>>>>safety's into my control. The VFD outputs an error signal if something
>>>>freaks out. The PLC detects the error and shuts down the coil. There are
>>>>a few other misc. features which includes a low voltage dead man switch,
>>>>cabinet safety's, alarm signals, etc... That's all PLC crap.
>>>>
>>>>The VFD itself is wired up to accept a 0 to 10mA signal that controls
>>>>the speed from 0 to 500 Hz. I have a 10k ohm pot mounted to the control
>>>>panel which serves to adjust the speed control. In the past, I have also
>>>>ran the VFD with a binary input for 16 preset speeds. The speeds are
>>>>simply entered into the VFD with the VFD pushbutton controls ( set the
>>>>Hz of each speed). The rotary switch then selects a binary input and
>>>>tells the VFD to run at SP2, SP5, SP10, (whatever). That was fine, but I
>>>>find the pot variable adjustment the best for coils.
>>>>
>>>>I use an Altivar 31 VFD by Telemecanique. Telemecanique was once known
>>>>as "not the greatest of VFDs". That has changed in the past 4 years. The
>>>>company actually was revamped. Nowadays, their drives are probably the
>>>>easiest to use and are now very reliable. Especially the Altivar 31
>>>>series (versus the old Altivar 28 which was pure Telemecanique of old).
>>>>
>>>>3-phase motors are the most efficient of motors and VFD's allow us to
>>>>use them. They are capable of forward, reverse, and variable speeds.
>>>>Most elevators use them to get you to floor 99 and down to the basement.
>>>>Isn't it interesting how smooth elevators are and when they reach a
>>>>particular floor, you can "feel" them slow to a perfect stop. That is
>>>>"all VFD" control. But elevators are simply 1 in 1000 applications. When
>>>>it comes to motor control, 3-phase is industry standard and VFD's are
>>>>their industry standard control module. In motor control, Allen Bradley
>>>>is still top of line for VFD's. But the others now are right there with
>>>>them in capability. The main difference is that industries are tied into
>>>>a particular breed by the code they write. It would be an expensive task
>>>>to change over to something else. So, they stick with what they are
>>>>familiar with. I do the same. I understand that situation completely.
>>>>
>>>>Take care,
>>>>Bart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tesla list wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:36:54 -0400
>>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>Bart,
>>>>> How exactly does your VFD work, is it some kind of PLC controlled
>>>>>motor? I originally intended to build an asynch, with a variable speed
>>>>>motor, but my particular motor was not up to the task (it wouldn't keep
>>>>>turning when the coil was turned on, I still am not absolutely sure why,
>>>>>I
>>>>>have theories though). It was simply a vacuum cleaner motor attached to
>>>>>a
>>>>>dimmer switch, worked great when the power to the tank was turned off,
>>>>>it
>>>>>would rotate between about 100 and 15000 RPM. Your gap sounds like an
>>>>>experimenters dream gap!
>>>>>Scott Bogard.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:19:00 -0600 (MDT)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:03:03 -0700
>>>>>>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Scott,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your welcome. That's a program the newer coilers probably don't know
>>>>>>about, but it's been around for a lot of years. There was a time when
>>>>>>we
>>>>>>all talked about this. Probably in the old archives somewhere. I
>>>>>>personally am a 240 bps guy myself if running in sync.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's difficult to express why. Part of it is the spark channel building
>>>>>>upon previous ionized streamers, part of it is the smooth running of
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>gap, and part of it is my previous expeditions of looking at the power
>>>>>>cycle between the 90 degree voltage and current differentials as I
>>>>>>compared 120 bps, 240 bps, etc.. However, losses were not considered
>>>>>>during those simulations, so that is also a factor that has to be at
>>>>>>least considered. In reality, there's not a lot of difference between
>>>>>>120 and 240 bps. A simple 8 electrode single gap at 1800 rpm disc speed
>>>>>>does wonders! Those were things I looked at several years ago. Hard to
>>>>>>remember the details tonight. I was running sync at that time so this
>>>>>>info was somewhat important to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>These days, I'm running VFD variable 3-phase. I love it! Probably won't
>>>>>>go back to a sync gap simply because I love altering the break rate at
>>>>>>the twist of my wrist (the sound of the sparks and gap is like revving
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>high performance engine!). Hard to express. When I'm rotating the disc
>>>>>>fast, bystanders start "standing back" just from the sound. Every coil
>>>>>>has a particular breakrate that produces a 1)smooth running coil and
>>>>>>2)long sparks. There's no doubt in my mind about that. I've played
>>>>>>enough with my VFD to realize that situation is real. Lately, the VFD
>>>>>>has been my favorite toy. The same could be done with a DC motor of
>>>>>>course, but with the VFD, I have the same effect with high efficiency
>>>>>>(plus, I can do sync, preset speeds, or whatever I decide, which is why
>>>>>>it's a favorite of mine). It's not limited to just one aspect of RSG's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Take care,
>>>>>>Bart
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tesla list wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:56:16 -0400
>>>>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bart,
>>>>>>> Thanks, I see how bad that configuration is, evidently my gut
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>instinct
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>was incorrect. Thanks for the program, it is very neat, I'm sure it
>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>>come in handy.
>>>>>>>Scott Bogard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:28:54 -0600 (MDT)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:06:50 -0700
>>>>>>>>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi Scott,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A 6 electrode 180 Hz firing rate has always been looked at as likely
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>worst of all cases. Haven't tried it myself, but there is an old DOS
>>>>>>>>program (1991) by Robert Jamison you might want to run that looks at
>>>>>>>>various configurations, and yes, the 6 electrode case is there. It's
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>simple .exe file. It's at my web site if you want to download and
>>>>>>>>run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.classictesla.com/download/rotjit.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Take care,
>>>>>>>>Bart
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tesla list wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:19:19 -0400
>>>>>>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: 180 BPS synch?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Nobody responded to my message (not even a "yes, it's been done" or
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>"no
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>won't work"), so I'm reposting it on the assumption either nobody
>>>>>>>>>got
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>it,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>nobody took the time to read it and respond, thanks.
>>>>>>>>>Scott Bogard.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:05:02 -0600 (MDT)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>>Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:31:13 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: 180 BPS synch?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Greetings all,
>>>>>>>>>> I was curious, what would the results be of a synchronous motor
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(1800
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>rpm) being used with 6 electrodes, for 180 BPS. My thinking is
>>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>arc
>>>>>>>>>>put out would be slightly more random due to uneven firing
>>>>>>>>>>voltages,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>>>asynch gap, but prevent dangerous resonant rises, due top it's
>>>>>>>>>>tenancy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>inevitably repeat a defined patter over and over again (also
>>>>>>>>>>different
>>>>>>>>>>"phasing" may effect output, but I don't think it would ever settle
>>>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>phase it cannot operate with, or one that would give optimum
>>>>>>>>>>power).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Has
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>anybody tried this, what do you guys think (I just finished
>>>>>>>>>>building
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>120/240 BPS sync, so I don't think I will be building another soon,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>maybe somebody else can try it). Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>Scott Bogard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>>>>>>>>>>http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in
>>>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>>>place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in
>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>http://newlivehotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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