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Re: [TCML] Q,,question

To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [TCML] Q,,question
From: johnbrooks@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:40:30 -0800
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Sirs,

""Thought will lead to experiments, which will demonstrate
   the effect.""
My thouhts also.

Splitting is nothing,vertical dremal attached to a flat surface,
What would be the size of this ribbobn,,,my math dont work that well?

The inductance I can measure and compare to primary,,;))
Regards

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:52:39 -0000, "Chris Swinson"
<list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
> Is this not assuming a solid wire ? current would be pushed to the
> surface 
> yes. but AFAIK it is not the same for hollow tubes which have two
> surfaces.
> 
> Skin effect should work on both sides of copper tube or flat ribbon.  I
> do 
> not see why current would pass on a flat strips both sides but not both 
> sides of a copper tube.
> 
> I see it as 2 surface areas, 100khz will be about 0.1mm depth so if the
> tube 
> is 0.5mm thick then it should be 0.1mm outside and inside the tube, the
> rest 
> of the copper mass of 0.3mm is now the core and not used...
> 
> I looked up skin effect, it just says "the surface" but there are two 
> surfaces. So I do not see why it would favour only 1 side of a tube ?
> 
> If you split open copper tube the surface area would still be the same.
> So 
> does not see why it matters what shape it is.. Maybe you know of a
> website 
> which states more arruratly what skin effect is. There is a lot of sites 
> though it only says "the surface"....
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Q,,question
> 
> 
> The inside surface of a tube carries no HF AC current, due to skin
> effect. 
> However, if you split the tube open into a ribbon, now both inside and 
> outside surfaces are current-carrying surfaces, although the current
> density 
> may not be uniform.
> 
> Regards, Gary Lau
> MA. USA
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Chris Swinson
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:36 AM
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Q,,question
> >
> > David, Gary, J,
> >
> > The inside of the tube still passes current just as much as the outside
> > does. If you cut it length ways like you say, where does the sudden mass 
> > of
> > extra surface area come from ?
> >
> > It sounds like you think the inside is not used, its all conducting flat 
> > or
> > round. Splitting it open does not increase the surface area... Like Gary
> > said, it would give sharp rough edges and voltage will spark off the rough
> > edges. copper tube is smooth and round and works very well.  I agree also
> > that copper tube would be better from a corona point of view and over all
> > easier.
> >
> > Only good way is to just use larger dia tube if you want to increase 
> > surface
> > area without progressing to a flat strip...
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Rieben" <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Q,,question
> >
> >
> > Hi Chris, Gary,
> >
> > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here, Chris. If
> > you were to split a length of copper tubing length-wise, then you
> > would effective double the surface area, since the previously
> > unexposed inside of the tubing will now be exposed. However,
> > as Gary has stated, you would also add other losses that would
> > more than negate whatever gains that you obtained by doubling the
> > primary coil's effective surface area. And I would hate to even think
> > about TRYING to NEATLY slit a 50 ft. section of copper tubing
> > into a nice smooth ribbon ;^(/ I'm with Gary, I would prefer copper
> > tubing/pipe to copper ribon anyway as I find it much easier to work.
> >
> > David Rieben
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Chris Swinson" <list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List"
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TCML] Q,,question
> > >
> > >
> > > Sirs,
> > > Would it be better to split a roll of 7/8" copper coil, and roll it
> > > flat?
> > > Seems more area would mean more "skin depth area"???
> > > Regards
> > > j.
> > > .
> > >
> > > The surface area will still be the same.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> > You may realize some gain with the larger surface area, but I would expect
> > losses to increase even more because of eddy current losses.  You would 
> > also
> > increase losses due to corona off of the sharper edges.
> >
> > And more significantly, how on earth would you do that, and not have it 
> > look
> > like a mess?  You can find copper ribbon on eBay, but even so, I would
> > choose
> > tubing over ribbon.
> >
> > Regards, Gary Lau
> > MA, USA
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
> > --
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> > 19:31
> >
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-- 
  
  johnbrooks@xxxxxxxxxxx

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Follow-Ups:
- Re: [TCML] Q,,question
  - From: mark olson

References:
- Re: [TCML] Q,,question
  - From: David Rieben
- Re: [TCML] Q,,question
  - From: Chris Swinson
- RE: [TCML] Q,,question
  - From: Lau, Gary
- Re: [TCML] Q,,question
  - From: Chris Swinson

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