Re: Tesla's CS Coil Data from ScanTesla and all....

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: "Mike" <induction@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Terry,
              I do find these results very interesting. Regarding the 
extra coil taking it's feed inductively because of the coaxial
position he ran it in back in CS, I have to wonder about that. You can see 
the room was not that large and I don't think he ran it outside of the main 
coil, tell me if he ever did please.
But when the coil was duplicated or semi-duplicated at Wendover, the extra 
coil ran well outside and inside the 51 feet main coil. Of course, per the 
computer simulation, the term "ran well" is a bit up in the air.
I would tend to think the distance from the ID of the outer coil to the OD 
of the inner coil would have made for some rather loose coupling, compared 
to the energy the extra coil received from the direct connection at it's 
base from the top of the secondary.
Roughly that is ~21 feet extra coil OD to main coil ID, yes that is kind of 
loose coupling.
Since you are now looking at inductive coupling when the extra coil  is 
within the main, I took a look at the drawing again because something 
struck me as odd. 
http://www.hot-streamer.com/mike2004/Wendover_Coil_Print_And_Spec.jpg 
because I see what looks like a reverse sense winding  of the extra coil 
compared to where it comes off the primary. Unless that was done for 
convenience, which would not be good to do, note that the 50 feet of wire 
from secondary dresses to the left hand side (facing) of the extra coil 
base. This implicates the direction of winding to start point reference. At 
the secondary top this wire feeds from, it shows, not clearly enough, that 
if the end of the secondary simply went straight off the turn in the 
direction of the extra coil (the 50 feet of wire) to the left side of extra 
coil base and start point, they are wired out of phase, if you also view 
them later in a center of main coil placement.
But the turn at the top of the extra coil, by the print, shows the wire 
exiting the winding and terminating at the top in the proper phase. In 
stand alone outside placement, this phase issue in no big deal but if the 
coupling inside the main coil is enough to take into account as extra input 
power as you thought it might be taken if the program were so modified, the 
phase may be wrong and bucking.
What is confusing by the drawing is the base of extra coil starts in one 
direction but ends at the top in the other direction.
So we have 3 data points of coil winding direction, the one at top of 
secondary, says CCW, the one at base of extra coil says CW and the top of 
extra coil says CCW. A picture of the secondary from another site shows the 
Extra coil, just like the print, gets a feed starting on the left hand side 
of the extra coil base. See http://home1.gte.net/res07cmo/hv/golka/golka.htm
 for a couple of decent pictures showing this.
So, the secondary base seems wired to the print, clearly if it winds 
upward, it has to come out as a CW winding.
Like in the old comedy,  who's on first?
With the great spacing between Primary and extra, it may not make much 
difference for your induction feed but if used, a closer look at this 
phasing may be in order.
For Malcolm a question, when you did that 1:25 ratio scale model, did you 
use this print as a coil winding model, do you still have it, etc.
Regards,
Mike


----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Tesla's CS Coil Data from ScanTesla and all....


> Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi Bart,
>
> Dave from TCBOR sent me a bunch of Richard Hull's data.  I pieced together 
> the rest with the programs.  It IS Tesla's Colorado Springs coil.
>
> I do wonder...  The third coil in Tesla's machine may have been able to 
> pickup a substantial amount of energy not as a magnifier where the third 
> coil is isolated, but as a standard coil where the induction from the 
> primary/secondary was coupled to the third coil...  Not counting the 
> coupling to the third coil may not be right...  Maybe Tesla's big machine 
> was more of an Oudin coil than a magnifier...
>
> Perhaps the program needs secondary to third coil coupling added...  Or, 
> just try modeling as a standard two coil system...  I can easily run the 
> primary to third coil coupling...
>
> K = 0.053
>
> That may we be enough to supply more energy to the third coil than the wire...
>
> Hmmmmm...
>
> Cheers,
>
>         Terry
>
>
> At 10:14 AM 6/26/2005, you wrote:
> > Hi Terry,
> >
> > I'm curious about your input parameters. I was under the assumption you 
> > were modeling the geometry of the Wendover coil data which Mike provided, 
> > but it obviously is not. Did you get inputs elsewhere for Tesla's CS Coil?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bart
> >
> > Tesla list wrote:
> >
> > > Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I ran the parameters for Tesla's Colorado Springs coil through MandK3.1 
> > > and E-Tesla6 to get better numbers to feed ScanTesla-TRSSTC...
> > >
> > > All the horrific details are here:
> > >
> > > http://drsstc.com/~terrell/modeling/Teslas-CScoil.ZIP
> > >
> > > Losses went way down and the capacitance of his secondary coil went way 
> > > up...  But overall, things did not change much.  The heavy ring in the 
> > > secondary coil went away now.  The secondary coil seems to be able to 
> > > isolate itself from the primary and tertiary tuned circuits to ring-on 
> > > for a long time.  But I doubt if Tesla coil was tuned as well as the 
> > > computer can tune things ;-))
> > >
> > > http://hot-streamer.com/temp/TCSCoilVoltages-02.gif
> > >
> > > Tesla coil probably never made over 300,000 Volts!!!  The higher BPS and 
> > > short burst time along with 50+++kW input pushed the streamers out even 
> > > though the efficiency was only about 11.6%!!  Talk about throwing a few 
> > > tens of kilowatts at it to make up for that ;-))  Hard to say where the 
> > > LERT was...  Primary inductance is hard to say for one turn...  I bet a 
> > > lot of loss went into the Earth under the primary/secondary coil...  The 
> > > very short burst time would have loved high BPS rates...
> > >
> > > I bet he pushed the BPS rate "way up" to overcome the coils energy 
> > > losses...  That would have been his perfect path for longer streamer 
> > > given what he had going there...  He had high losses but lots of power 
> > > and a short powerful burst...  His streamer would have increased in 
> > > length as a direct function of BPS until something like the power plant 
> > > blew up :o))  I am thinking his longer streamer must have been help by 
> > > short LERT cases...
> > >
> > > Hard to say how "true" any of this is...  But it represents 
> > > "quadrillions" of calculations from the best programs out there this night...
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > > ScanTesla  V-TRSSTC-7.30  June 23, 2005  Terry Fritz
> > > Goal =        9.137594838  Maxium Load Energy
> > > Goal Time = 1.000000e-003
> > > Model Number = 56
> > > Goal Number = 56
> > >
> > > Cprimary = 1.530000e-007
> > > Lprimary = 1.775000e-005
> > > Rprimary = 1.500000e+000
> > > Coupling = 0.563300
> > > Csecondary = 1.500000e-009
> > > Lsecondary = 9.622000e-003
> > > Rsecondary = 6.100000e+000
> > > Ltertiary = 1.591100e-002
> > > Ctertiary = 1.100000e-010
> > > Rtertiary = 9.400000e+000
> > > Cload = 0.300000e-010
> > > Rload = 2.200000e+005
> > > BPS = 600.000000
> > > Dwell Time = 0.300000e-003
> > >
> > > Ilprimay Maximum = -3091.658812
> > > ICprimary RMS = 165.045753
> > > VCprimary Maximum = 31978.499678
> > > VCsecondary Maximum = -106168.996121
> > > VCtertiary Maximum = -314947.316931
> > > Coil Power = 47001.600000   Primary Bang Energy = 78.336000
> > > Load Power = 5482.556903   Load Bang Energy = 9.137595
> > > Primary F0 = 96577.339544
> > > Load Energy Rise Time (Sec) = 2.944000e-004
> > > Models Tested = 201
> > > -----------------------------
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > >     Terry