Re: Fun with Argon

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: "David Rieben" <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Gary,

I too, have persoanl experience with ozone generated from Tesla coils
(I know that's spark generated ozone) but please, let me continue. The
ozone that's generated by the smaller NST powered coils that I have
built gave me the biggest problems. The
high powered 8 to 10 foot arcs from a pig powered Tesla coil con-
sisted more of power arcs to nearby grounded objects since the entire
coil assembly was only about 70" tall and these ozone levels never
really got that bad inside of a small garage albeit huge bright sparks
were attacking just about everything inside that little 12x20 shed. How-
ever, when I would operate a 15/60 NST coil insde that same shed, many
of the streamers would just reach out and terminate into the air and there
weren't near as many grounded strikes. In this situation, the ozone
levels quickly reached noxious proportions with a sharp, stinging
odor that would render me with coughing , headaches and asthma-
like symptoms (and I don't have asthma). It would take 20 to 30 minutes
of fresh air to alleviate these symptoms. This has happened to me on
more than one occasion, too but I never got sick from the sparks
of the large pig-powered coil. There wasn't really that much detectable
odor during operation, either. So, from my personal experience, your
reasoning seems in error. This has been discussed in detail numerous
times on this list and as a porfessional firefighter for 16+ years, I do
have some basic hazardous materials training and I "do" respect the
opinion of experts when they tell me that O3 exposure is dangerous-
ly toxic in concentrations of <1 ppm. I know from personal experience
that this stuff can indeed hurt you ;^(

Also, I do have my concerns with these ozone generating machines
that are available to consumers that are mainly ignorant to the dan-
gers and toxicity of O3. Although the concentrations are obvious-
ly below the short-term toxic limit, I do wonder about the possible
long term health risk of this. It may be like cigarette smoking - the
smoke of one cigarette in the lungs never killed anybody, but 2
packs (40 cigarettes) a day  for 30 years will usually result in
lung cancer and/or emphysema. Maybe we coilers that are sparking
2 hours a day should also consider the possible long-term health
effects of O3 as well :^O

David Rieben

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Fun with Argon


> Original poster: Gary Franklin <Franklin.Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> What an impressive list of references. But I base my opinion on my
> personal experience. I have an ozone air purifier in my residence that
> produces enough ozone to destroy a rubber band in a couple of days. I
> have been operating that machine continuously since 1997. Molds and odor
> don't last long in than environment. I have breathed ozone, drank water
> saturated with ozone, and injected it intravenously without harmful
> effects. So, you can probably tell that I don't have a lot of respect
> for experts' opinion.
>
> It seems that the problem is ozone that is generated with sparks. All
> the ozone I make with three different machine use high voltage cold
> corona discharge which means no sparks to generate the nitrogen oxides.
> Tesla got a patent for this method.
>
> Here is an article (c) 1986, written be another chemist who tried to
> kill a mouse with ozone and failed.
> http://www.oxygenmedicine.com/ozonetoxicity.html
>
> But the real question: Has anyone noticed any unusual effects from
> working with the inert gases?
>
> GF
>
>
> Tesla list wrote:
>  >
>  > Original poster: Mddeming@xxxxxxx
>  >
>  > In a message dated 12/4/04 3:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>  > tesla@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
>  > Original poster: Gary Franklin
>  > <mailto:Franklin.Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Franklin.Gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>  >
>  > Tesla invented an ozone production method that produced only ozone,
which
>  > is not toxic. The glass electrodes of a violet wand, also a Tesla
>  > invention I understand, produces ozone without the nitric compounds.
>  >
>  > GF
>  >
>  > Hi Gary,
>  >
>  >  From "Modern Chemistry" H.C.Metcalfe et. al. 1982:
>  > "Ozone is a poisonous, blue gas with an irritating and pungent odor."
>  > "The presence of ozone in amounts over 0.25 PPM ... can cause chest
pain,
>  > coughing, headache, and eye irritation."
>  >
>  >  From Chemistry - A Study of Matter" A.B.Garrett et.al. 1972:
>  > "Even in 1 PPM concentration, ozone can cause bronchial irritation."
>  >
>  >  From "Essentials of General Chemistry" Hopkins and Bailar 1946:
>  > "In considering ozone for any such [deodorizing] use, however, it
should be
>  > borne in mind that this gas is an active poison."
>  >
>  >  From "Handbook of Chemistry & Physics 77th ed." 1997:
>  > The threshold limit Value for Ozone is 0.1 PPM. This is ceiling value,
not
>  > to be exceeded even for short periods.
>  >
>  >  From "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics 44th ed." 1960
>  > "Toxicity of Some Gasses and Vapors"
>  > Lists ozone as 1 PPM or 0.002 mg/l
>  >
>  >  From these, it would seem that the existence of non-toxic ozone is
> doubtful.
>  > If there is a "non-toxic" form of ozone, it was unknown to the general
>  > scientific community as recently as 1997. Of course, as one of my
chemistry
>  > professors said, "If you have any doubts, stick your head under the
vent
>  > hood and take several deep draughts."
>  >
>  > Matt D.
>
>
>