RE: T&R Electric - No More...

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Terry Fritz" <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>

Hi,

But Ralph...  If the MOVs are smoking, they are working just fine 
;-)))  When your NST blows, is when you want to blame me :D  Of course, if 
you do things right, the MOVs will not smoke either...

The signal generator is real nice!!  It is worth almost enough money to 
cover your attorney's retainer :o)))  Probably best to spend the money on a 
generator for yourself.  Then in a few years, you would still having 
something to show for it :D

Before this thread deteriorates to the point of needing to be trashed...

If indeed someone was hurt playing with a pole transformer in their 
garage.  I hope their injuries were not serious or worse :-((   Of course, 
legal recourse would depend on many many things such as the extent of the 
injuries.  Did they break a toe moving it, or were they killed...  Then 
there is the liability question.  If the transformer was blatantly 
defective and they deliberately sold him "the bad one" knowing full well it 
was dangerous, or if the transformer performed perfectly as designed and 
delivered powered correctly to the "load"...

There are many "stories", "exaggerations", and "tales" about 
lawsuits...  But the Devil is in the details...  People (impartial) that 
"actually" sit in the court room and listen to the "full story" are usually 
pretty satisfied that justice was done.  The "press" likes to blow things 
out of proportion to sell wood pulp.  Now with the Internet, we can obtain 
such "news" for what it's actual value is...

http://www.lectlaw-dot-com/files/cur78.htm

The IBM/SCO case is another that IBM, at least, is giving the press all the 
information they need to know (none)...

T&R was a great supplier of equipment to us and we should be happy that 
they supplied transformers for as long as they could.  Vendors come and 
go...  IF CP still sold capacitors, they would no longer have much business 
from us anyway.  I remember the "panic" when the law changed requiring NSTs 
to have built in ground fault protection.  In the end, there was no need to 
panic but only laughing ;-))  Apparently, you can run coils with the 
protection intact if you don't want to spend the 10 minutes it takes to 
defeat it...  And, if you grab the HV circuit the wrong way, that darn 
ground fault circuit just might save your life!!

Model rocketry got a shock when the commercial rocket engines were thought 
to be impossible to get due to terrorist concerns.  Of course, making 
rocket engines yourself is not "rocket science" as many are finding...  The 
world was probably better off before...  Now instead of have a few 
commercial sources for rocket engines, we had hundreds of amateurs checking 
out how they can do it themselves (wildly dangerous but not "hard")...  Of 
course, it was all "hype" since you can get engines just the same as you 
always could...  Just have to ship them by ground transportation which is 
probably a real good idea anyway...

Another face value bit of hilarity was when the FBI wanted to 
restrict/trace "agar" used to grow germs in the laboratory...  Any budding 
bio-engineer above the age of eight could figure out about 100 substitutes 
on the way to the super market.  And they did just to save cost and the 
hassle of ordering it anyway...  All it took was a reason to innovate...

So let's not panic just yet...  If we could not get pole pigs tomorrow, we 
would probably think of something far far better the day after...  Loosing 
a supplier of a part is just fuel for innovation ;-))  I have seen a number 
of vendors "stop" supplying something only to return later after changing 
their mind.  We simply tell them - Sorry, "you" were designed "out"...  So 
far, it seems we have plenty of pole transformers floating 
around...  Often, all it takes to get a big transformer is asking around, a 
truck, and a few strong friends...

While we may need more than "sticks, a few rocks, and a squirrel" to build 
a Tesla coil, we don't "need" transformers from T&R.


Cheers,

         Terry


At 10:26 AM 8/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Oh Captain, my Captain,
>
>Amen to the Commodore. In a culture that has become ethically
>challenged,
>the next time the MOVs on my NST filter smoke up my basement, I'm gonna
>sue
>Terry out of his random signal generator.  There can be no freedom
>without taking
>the responsibility for the consequences of one's own actions.  OSHA and
>the nanny state is watching. For coilers and others who like to play
>with dangerous toys, the situational ethics of suing the deep pockets
>will lead to licensing and the end our access to our dangerous toys.
>
>Ralph Zekelman
>High Speed Tube Duster,
>US SigC, ret.
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:41 PM
>To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
>Subject: RE: T&R Electric - No More...
>
>Original poster: "Dave Kyle by way of Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>"
><dave-at-kyleusa-dot-com>
>
>Captain,
>
>I can't let your statement slide by. You are 100% wrong to say it is
>society's fault. Every lawsuit is the result of an individual's decision
>to
>sue. Medical costs are immaterial to this augment. This is all about
>personal responsibility and knowing right from wrong. There is simply no
>excuse for ethically challenged behavior.
>
>I have stood in those shoes and I have had to make that decision. It was
>not
>so tough; I needed only to follow my conscience.
>
>The Commodore
>
>=========================================
>Dave Kyle
>Austin, TX USA
>Email: dave-at-kyleusa-dot-com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:45 PM
>To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
>Subject: RE: T&R Electric - No More...
>
>Original poster: "Mccauley, Daniel H by way of Terry Fritz
><teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <daniel.h.mccauley-at-lmco-dot-com>
>
>
>Jeff,
>
>You really can't place all the blame on these individuals.  Its the
>nature of the society we are growing up in.
>Liability this, liability that, and the ease of seemingly "free" money
>by those vultures (lawyers)  Chances are, some
>person got seriously hurt using this equipment and his/her medical
>insurance didn't cover the costs.  Again, the nature of
>medical insurance in this country.  After visiting a lawyer, a lawsuit
>may have been placed on the vendor to cover medical costs and any other
>lawsuits the *lawyer* saw fit and voila.
>
>I know it is really disapointing to see this happening, but with today's
>society and dwindling health benefits you *really*
>can't put all the blame on the individual.  You have to put yourself
>into that person's shoes before making any harsh judgements. Of course,
>I have no idea what the actual circumstances are, but consider the
>following before making judgements on others.  What if you yourself had
>both your arms blown off by a high voltage accident and only 50% of your
>medical coverage was covered. Suppose that 50% was $50,000 after
>numerous operations etc...
>
>I know we all tend to act and be honorable when it comes to taking
>responsibility for our own actions, but until one actually experiences
>something terrible (i.e. bad medical mishap etc...), you really can't
>preach how you would act under those
>circumstances.
>
>Of course again, I have no idea the circumstances surrounding these
>lawsuits.  If it *is* just a material defect complaint / lawsuit, then
>yes, I agree with you 100%.  But if medical injury is involved, thats a
>whole 'nother story.
>
>The Captain
>
>
>   > TCML,
>   >
>   > T&R Electric is out of the business of selling to Tesla
>   > coilers because of
>   > a complaint and threat of lawsuit by a hobbyist. They won't
>   > even sell to
>   > kVA Effects anymore even with our insurance, corporate status
>   > and time in
>   > the business.
>   >
>   > This is the same story as Condenser Products a while ago.
>   > They sold TC
>   > parts, TCML bought 'em, someone threatened a lawsuit (you
>   > know who you are:
>   > I do!) and now they won't sell to Tesla coilers.
>   >
>   > Moral: You makes your sparks you takes your chances. Be a
>   > grown-up and keep
>   > your complaints and lawsuits to my vendors to yourself! This
>   > is EXACTLY the
>   > reason that we do not disclose any of our vendors to the
>   > hobby community
>   > nor provide specific help or advice on building coils.
>   >
>   > Jeff
>   > p.s. Ed Wingate predicted five years ago that the supply of
>   > certain parts
>   > (pole pigs, etc.) would evaporate once someone got hurt or started
>to
>   > complain. I am sorry to say that his predictions (injury, complaint,
>   > lawsuit, etc.) are coming true. This is the downside of the
>   > TCML; newbie
>   > fubar...
>   >
>   >
>   > Jeff W. Parisse
>   > Director, kVA Effects
>   > <http://www.teslacoil-dot-com/>www.teslacoil-dot-com
>   > 310-748-5893
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >