# Re: Dielectric Constant?/Gasoline Arc

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--- Tesla List <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original Poster: Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>
>
> Hi Harvey,
>
> At 04:41 PM 6/4/00 -0700, you wrote:
> snip...
> >From a quick
> >review of taping, the pause frames seem to indicate
> >that when an arc is seen on the primary arc gap,
> none
> >is present on the secondary terminals. Is this to
> be
> >indicative of what a mistuned system will act like
> in
> >time? From what I have been able to observe by
> taping
> >a scope sweep rate of 2ms/div the pause frames  of
> a
> >VCR recording appear to coincide roughly to the
> 16.6
> >ms cycle time of a 60 hz signal. Now if this is
> true
> >then that most static gap systems fire at 120 BPS,
>
> If your coil is run from 60Hz, then the gap firing
> rate should be somewhat
> synced with the 60Hz even if it is resonant charged.
>  When the line voltage
> is at a peak, the charging rate will also be at a
> peak.  It would take a
> rotary sync gap for it to be perfectly in sync, but
> the general gap firings
> still occur during the times of maximum charging,
> more or less.

> The secondary arcs may form to full length over
> several discharge cycles as
> the air heats up and all.  But assuming that the top
> arcs at the secondary
> voltage peak, the time can be fairly accurately
> calculated between the gap
> firing and the secondary peak.  It is 1/k half
> cycles.  Thus the time is:
>
> 	t = 1 / (2 x k x Fo)
>
> t = Time from gap firing to secondary voltage peak.
> k = primary to secondary coupling coefficient.
> Fo = System resonant frequency
>
> for the system described at:
>
>
http://users.better-dot-org/tfritz/site/papers/modact/modact.html
>
> And from the graphs at:
>
http://users.better-dot-org/tfritz/site/papers/modact/Image173.gif
>
http://users.better-dot-org/tfritz/site/papers/modact/Image174.gif
>
> I would guess 22uS from the graphs.  The equations
> gives:
>
> 	1 / (2 x 0.1753 x 111700) = 25.5uS
>
> So the equation is "close enough" to calculated this
> time delay for a given
> coil.
>
> So the question is now, Can your camera detect a
> time delay of 25uS?
Thanx for this great info Terry. I dont understand a
lot of things, but a better understanding is being
fathomed as time goes along. In this question you have
brought up, it is not my camera, it is anyones. They
can do the same thing I did. I did not think a VHS
tape recorder camera was as expensive as a computer,
and I used that tool first. Anyone can make a VHS
recording of their tesla coil operation by using a
camera recording both the primary arcing simultaneous
to the secondary, and determine the time differences
for themselves.If folks arent familiar with their VCR
playback function they contain a pause function that
produces a freeze frame. I am quite sure that someone
has already done that simple thing,simply because it
is so simple this must only be a repetition. But to
ascertain the time period of that freeze frame I put
the pause frame to reveal what was seen during a
2ms/div sweep rate on a scope, and those pause frames
showed each sweep rate in progress. So to answer this
simple question the camera by this observation and
theory only delivers info at that sweep rate. Thus it
can never capture a single event of 25 microseconds or
25us as you have questioned. Thus the multitraced
patterns I have shown on my TEC webpages are misnomers
of a proper observation. The sweep rate pictured on
the homepage at 5us/div should ordinarily contain 333
traces at that camera deduced time period, but of
course that many traces are not apparent, although
many duplicate traces may occur. Nothing is known, but
that is my opinion. Thus your observation of the
multitrace problem with this camera technique is
noted.
> Assuming a frame rate of 33333uS and the persistence
> of the photo detecting
> elements in the camera along with the various other
> delays, I think it
> would be very hard if not impossible.  However you
> may be able to see the
> gap firing "flicker" and a secondary strike to
> ground "flicker" in a single
> scan that may be of use.  The camera is also
> probably "interlaced" which
> really makes things messy.   You are probably better
> off trying to single
> trigger your scope, with the intensity turned up, to
> catch the event on the
> scope's prosper on the video.  Ideally, you would
> get a digital scope which
> would make all this painfully easy.  All those
> cursors and digital readouts
> would be of great benefit for your work.  But they
> are not cheap :-(
I have started to look at the other scopes and making
observations from them. They do not YET convince me of
error.
> As far as the gasoline experiment goes, your on your
> own there! =:-O
Dont worry, thats my job.
> That's my 2 cents...
Worth more than most money
> Cheers,
>
> 	Terry
Thanks again for the info, this is a learning process
HDN

=====
Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb-dot-com/mbs.cgi/mb124201

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