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RE: Primary Q - A Brain Teaser



Sounds like a good analysis to me !  

We noticed similar phenomena when designing pulsed gas lasers inthe 1980's
at Marconi.  I wrote some Fortran code to model the laser, and came up with
an mathematical model for the electrical discharge with a strong constant
voltage term, plus a weaker resistive term, and some other terms which didnt
really have much effect.  Anyway the first two terms gave a model which
behaved similarly to our lab prototypes.  The first term alone would give a
linear decrement as your friend has proposed.  I think in the lab you would
see a combination of terms, giving something not quite linear, but tapered
just a bit.  

Q is presumed only for linear circuits, and we know we have at least one
decidedly non-linear element in the primary.  So the whole idea of Q becomes
invalid in the strictes technical sense.  Your friends method extends the
definition of Q to include a non linear effect, the result being that Q is
no longer constant, but is still a useful indicator, and his conclusions are
correct.

just my  $ 0.02

Will


> ----------
> From: 	Tesla List[SMTP:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
> Sent: 	Sunday, November 15, 1998 19:37
> To: 	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: 	Primary Q - A Brain Teaser
> 
> Original Poster: "Malcolm Watts" <MALCOLM-at-directorate.wnp.ac.nz> 
> 
> Here is the post requested by some offlist. 
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> ..................Forwarded Message Follows........................
> 
> Hi All,
>            I had occasion to think about this while answering an off-
> list query and came to the surprising conclusion that Qp cannot be 
> quantified as an absolute figure.  Here is the reasoning:
> 
> Fundamental definition of Q = 2PI x total energy/energy lost per cycle
> 
> One can see that a log decr waveform always loses the same percentage
> of remaining energy from one cycle to the next. Not so a linear 
> decrement which is what happens in the primary due to the presence of 
> the gap. Here's why (The diagram below shows peak voltage on the +ve 
> half cycle) :
> 
> Vi -  *
> Vf -----  *
>                *
>                     *
>                          *
>                               *
> 0  .....................................
> 
> Energy contained in tank = 0.5xCxVi^2  initially
> Energy contained in tank = 0.5xCxVf^2  at second peak
> 
> Difference in energy between peaks = 0.5xCx(Vi^2 - Vf^2)
> 
> Using the definition of Q above, Q =    2xPIx0.5xCxVi^2
>                                        ------------------
>                                        0.5xCx(Vi^2 - Vf^2)
> 
> which =     2xPIx Vi^2
>         --------------------
>           (Vi^2 - Vf^2)
> 
> Let Vi = 10V and let the drop per cycle = 1V
> 
> Then plugging in the figures, Q appears to =    2xPIx 10^2
>                                               ---------------
>                                                 10^2 - 9^2
> 
> which = 200xPI/(100-81) = 33
> 
> NOW, let us calculate Q between the second peak and the third peak:
> 
>        2xPIx 9^2
> Q =  -------------    = 29.9  !
>        9^2 - 8^2
> 
> Let's try that for peaks 3 and four:
> 
>         2xPIx 8^2
> Q =   ------------    = 26.8  !!!
>         8^2 - 7^2
> 
> A pattern emerges...
> 
> Finally let's try it for peaks where Vi = 2V  and Vf = 1V:
> 
>        2xPIx 2^2
> Q =   -------------   = 8.38 approx
>         2^2 - 1^2
>         
> So as the voltage drops with each cycle, Q does as well !!!
> Clearly, in order to obtain a high primary Q, one must use the 
> highest possible primary voltage. Although the energy lost in
> absolute terms is highest with the highest voltage, the energy
> lost as a percentage of total power is lowest. If one considers
> that the gap has a conduction voltage of say 50V and that is either 
> fixed or rising, it's not hard to see that if remaining cap voltage
> is twice that figure, Q drops into the dirt on the last cycle before 
> the gap finally goes out. It doesn't just tail off. Remember that the 
> gap roughly exhibits a V*I loss, not an R*I^2 loss. Gap current is 
> not proprotional to gap conduction voltage. 
> 
> Comments welcome,
> Malcolm
> 
> ** If it's under 10 Amps it's Leakage Current **
> 
>