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Re: Water As Dielectric


From:	Robert Michaels [SMTP:robert.michaels-at-online.sme-dot-org]
Sent:	Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:54 AM
To:	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
Subject:	RE- Re: Water As Dielectric

TL>From:  Alfred C. Erpel[SMTP:aerpel-at-Op.Net]
TL>Subject:  Re: Water As Dielectric

TL>    Ok, I think I've been convinced of the folly of using water as a
TL>dielectric, but now I am intrigued about glycerin. Can anyone report on the
TL>dielectric strength of glycerin or otherwise shoot down its potential
TL>efficacy as a dielectric? Again, my intent is to use it in a sturdily,
TL>machined/assembled, liquid tight, polycarbonate container .032 copper plates
TL>parallel and flat withing .002, with .010 to .030 even gaps between plates

[ ... ]

        I believe if you compare the price of glycerin with the
        price of capacitor-grade oil you'll have your answer.
        Unequivocally!

        Regardless, glycerin is quite hygroscopic.  So any given
        specimen is apt to have properties slightly different from
        any other.  And slightly different on Thursday than on
        Tuesday.

        And if you compare the price of oil with the price of
        anhydrous glycerin you'll really have your answer -- and
        likely be willing to do penance in the bargain.


TL> depending on desired voltage/capacitance combination). Also
what about TL>ethyl alcohol as dielectric, which is between 35-40 k?

        Ethyl alcohol is great -- in a martini.

        In a capacitor it's little more than water. Water is a
        hydrogen ion combined with an -OH group.

        Ethyl alcohol is an "ethyl ion" C2H5-  combined with an
        -OH group.  It's ethylated water.  The -OH groups in each
        have quite similar properties -- except the one in the
        alcohol is somewhat less reactive.

                                - - - - - -

        If you insist on being a fool with your time and money use
        chlorocarbons (such a carbon tetrachloride) or chlorofluro-
        carbons ("Freons").  They have stupendously favorable
        electrical properties.

        Else, get on the phone and order yourself a pail of capacitor
        oil and start  =making=   ==Tesla==  ===coils===.  (I mean
        this is the Tesla Coil List?  Isn't it??)




TL>    Also, while on the topic of capacitors, I can't wait until I'm retired
TL>so I can build my 48" cube, 1 farad capacitor in my basement.  I'd charge
TL>that sucker up to 10,000 volts and go to sleep resting easy that I had 13.9
TL>kilowatt hrs. stored away in case I needed it.
TL><seg>

        Frankly I think you're having pipe dreams.

        You cannot store time in a bottle.  Or in a capacitor, either.

        It's possible to store 13.9-kW, but it does not become "hours"
        as in 13.9-kW/hr.  =until=  you discharge all of those 13.9-kW's
        in exactly 1-hour's time.

        BTW - that really isn't any huge amount of energy.  Two of the
        large-size automobile batteries in series or parallel, brand
        new and fully-charged, would have no trouble delivering
        13.9-kW/hr.

        And -- if you ever do construct a high-voltage capacitor of
        that capacitance in one single unit, I think you will quickly
        find the errors in your thinking -- along perhaps with pieces of
        the house in various parts of the neighborhood.

        Energy storage capacitors are invariably constructed as  =banks=
        of (sometimes many) smaller units.   For good reason.   As many
        on This List have already discovered - even with comparatively
        minuscule Tesla-coil-sized capacitors.

                                              Placing physics before
                                              folly, in -- Detroit, USA


                                              Robert Michaels