Re: In vs. Out [small magnefier ]

From: 	DR.RESONANCE[SMTP:DR.RESONANCE-at-next-wave-dot-net]
Sent: 	Sunday, July 20, 1997 6:21 PM
To: 	Tesla List
Subject: 	Re: In vs. Out

Hi Rich:  

Was wondering if anyone in your group ever tried to drive a small magnifier
with a high power vacuum tube setup?  I have an 803 with matching 3,000
volt, 1.2 ampere power supply and matching filiment xmfr.  I thought in
might be fun trying to drive a small magnifier/resonator setup.  I have in
mind an 12 dia. sec coil closewound with #6 AWG and a 20 in. dia. primary
of 30-60 turns with tuning taps.  This sec. coil to be about 24 inches
long.  Resonator coil would be a 24 inch long winding of #14 AWG 3 kv PVC
insulated wire -- closewound.  Perhaps a 24 x 5 toroid on top of resonator
and a small toroid of 1 inch dia. copper tubing atop the driver sec. coil. 
I'm not looking for spark-excited performance but thought a nice 36-48 inch
discharge would be a good starting point.

Comments or suggestions from you or John Freau most welcome.

DC at DR.RESONANCE-at-next-wave-dot-net

> From: Tesla List <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> To: 'Tesla List' <tesla-at-poodle.pupman-dot-com>
> Subject: In vs. Out
> Date: Sunday,July 20,1997 1:00 PM
> From: 	richard hull[SMTP:rhull-at-richmond.infi-dot-net]
> Sent: 	Sunday, July 20, 1997 3:49 AM
> To: 	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: 	In vs. Out
> I have been quietly following the input vs. output rounds between John
> Couture, Malcolm Watts, and John Freau.  It seems each has a valid point
> the bottom line is which end of the coil you are looking at and what your
> usage is in the end.
> I am more in the John F. and Malcolm W. camp, but see and view things
> several angles.
> John C. is structuring his argument to look at the coil from the
> aspect.  Being an engieer myself, I can see this argument has real merit.
> Johns approach is sound.  It is just that few coilers are at a point
> real output energy can be measured accurately.  With the engineering
brain I
> see spark and naturally am willing to assume more spark out = more energy
> out.  This seems a classically and thermodynamically sound assumption.
> The snag comes from my own brain from the artistic side which often does
> battle with the mechanistic side.  In my experience, I have seen a lotta'
> sparks!!  I have seen sparks of x length which were thin, pale, whispy,
> violet-purple.  I have also seen flaming hot, blindingly white arcs of x
> length, but never at the same input power as example #1.
> It is this subjective argument that John F. spoke to when he rightfully,
> feel, said that we seek lowest energy input for the longest length.  He
> futher noted that this may or may not, as the case may be, the best case
> power or energy wise.
> I feel as, John F and Malcolm that if, as coilers, we are after sparks,
> the power consumption fall where it may.  Virginia Power will sell me all
> want...CHEAP!
> I have my own criteria for performance which has little more viability
> any other method.  This is the resonator length vs output spark and its
> fractional relationship.  This is a far less engineering oriented measure
> and is more a measure of long term success and artisanship in the coiling
> adventure we are all taking part in.  It speaks more to the experience
> knowledge of electrostatic control of the builder. 
>  Still I have never heard of a coiler exceeding 4 times the resonator
> under 100 watts.  This is due to the large terminal sizes demanded
> accomplish this feat and the requirement for real power expenditures to
> break out of such capacities.
> There are many criteria pegs upon which one may hang their "performance
> hats".  The engineering one is strict and rigid and may or may not relate
> sparks which are after all a measure of loss to the air!  Rarely has
> enginering positioned itself when desinging a device to seek maximized
>   The spark based method relies on a uniform spark intensity, coil to
> with subjective calibration efforts won only with experience. 
>  The resonator vs spark length argument probably speaks more of
> than efficiency, although when coupled with some measure of energy
> efficiency for a given spark length, may give the ultimate gauge of
> penultimate, plus ultra performance.
> This is not speaking to the mechanistic side of the adventure we are on
> should allow us to embrace all methods of determining good to best
>   I think most old hands at the game can look and instantly guage
> (intuitively) whether a given system is a real "performer" or not.  The
> knowledgable and experienced human engine is still the best and ultimate
> integrator.
> Richard Hull, TCBOR