Re: Oscilloscope recommendation/Heath 4221/ Self Res. No.s

["harvey norris" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com> (by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>)]

--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> 	I have worked with everything from cheap Asian
> scopes to "secret" Tek
> developmental multi-zillion sample storage jobs. 
> Even though they jacked
> the price $200 recently, the Tektronix TDS 210 is
> still, by far, the best
> bang for the buck out there!  About $1200 bucks, but
> 50 times better than
> those odd $499 analog things you see around.  You
> may be able to find them
> used for less now...  
> 
> If you like fancy glitzy stuff but really no more
> functionality, the 3000
> series is a second choice.  The floppy drive is
> super nice but
> sloooooowwww.  The color and the persistence thing
> is cute but after
> playing with ones at work, I need hard data, not
> menu after menu of
> "colorful confusion"...
> 
>
http://www.tek-dot-com/Measurement/Products/catalog/tds200/eng/index.html
> 
> I would consider nothing else.  I have not tested
> power arcs to the screen
> or anything :-), but they seem to like Tesla coils
> just fine.
> 
> Being able to have frequency, peak to peak, true
> RMS, average sampling...
> at the press of a button is extremely handy...  You
> can freeze a wave form
> right out of the noise with ease (Harvey, are you
> listening ;-))).  

As Spock might say I am still working with crude stone
tools and bearskins regarding scope information, and
havent made it to the digital age yet. But for those
that are curious about methods of getting around this
inadequacy of being burdened with the old vacuum tube
technology  I can again describe how another tool can
be used in conjunction with the scope to give info
that the scope may not readily yeild. This other tool
is the VHS camera that simply tapes the scope in real
time. Yes it would be nice to have digital,but Im
going to hold off on any purchases for now, due to
finances. Having purchased 4 used analogs from E bay,
I have found that they do not have the ability to see
what the frequency of the BPS spikes I have been
observing at lower input frequency selection sweep
rate of 2ms/div used for 60 hz observation.
Essentially if we cannot see the frequency of the BPS
spike in time by using a higher sweep rate, and also
know the decay time of that oscillation referenced to
its empty time of non oscillation, we are not really
extracting a lot of information from scope
observations. This is also said to be a triggering
problem, as Terry is completely correct in that only a
single trace across a scope screen is indicative of
what we are trying to see, giving us these 3 pieces of
information from use of different sweep rates. Now in
the high induction coil high frequency process I have
been observing, which may only be a tame version of
the tesla coil, but more properly something completely
different in its bipolar schematic where the arc gap
is placed: nevertheless I know nothing of scoping
tesla coils and hope to have a try at this at the Ohio
Teslathon/Sept 16th. But to continue, the reader may
wish to know why I would need to make a VHS tape of a
oscilloscope reading in real time. This is because
when the higher frequency rates of these  analogue
scopes are used they wont synchronize the events
properly and at those higher sweep rates the
oscillations are usually appearing across the scope
screen, but at an extremely high drift rate/ or
possibly the process itself I am observing causes this
as a real observation since the same info can also
appear in a stable state of affairs where the
frequency can be found without going through all this
other hanky panky. But when that is necessary we can
view the VHS tape on replay, and then pause it frame
per frame, to see the oscillation time of frequency,
and its decay time by going to a lower sweep rate and
doing the same until two high frequency oscillations
per sweep begin to become apparent. Now at 120 BPS
there may not be many problems there, but at 600 BPS
or so as the forms I have produced show on 60 hz
sweeps, there may be a great problem showing on each
of those VHS pause frames where more than one trace
appears. This is simply because the sampling rate of
the camera at the predicted 60 frames per second of
its operation, is trying to record the information of
the scope screen that is putting many more sweeps
across its screen in that time period than it can
record, and the result means many traces per larger
recorded slice of time period, on that individual VHS
tape frame. Somewhat analogous to this is the
observation of old western movies where the wagon
wheels momentarily move backwards in deacceleration by
the sampling rate of the camera interfacing with its
deaccelerated movement to produce the illusion of the
wheel moving backwards. Now I understand that 
everyone would love to use that same analogy to
explain how the scope forms of my process can show 180
phased scope forms, and this is soley due to that kind
of improper sweep tracing function serving to supply
an illusion. Now logically this at first seems a
logical conclusion, but I am only playing the devil's
advocate there on that conclusion of confusion, anyone
can beleive what they want, even if its wrong. So I'm
right and everyone else is wrong, but thats another
matter... In the instance of high BPS rates giving the
example of a 20us/div sweep rate, the camera should
see about 8.3 traces per frame,given 10 div/sweep and
at 120 BPS that doesnt present a problem to expand 2
BPS spikes seen at 2ms/div into a laterally stretched
oscillation to see the frequency of that BPS spike,
however if 10 instead of two occur in that same time
period there will be great problems involved with
recieving the signals in a synched manner which
actually then results in an enormous drift rate at
those higher freq sweep ranges,where in my limited
experience of using scopes to see this phenomenon, the
rapid BPS rates may cause these problems, possibly the
same found with a static tesla primary gap that may
slightly change its portion of firing relative to the
input frequency on each cycle. Nevertheless all of the
above mentioned measures are found to be almost
entirely unnecessary when employing the Heath 4221
analogue scope, which makes the other analogues look
like junk. This is because with the simple flick of a
switch, known as TV Coupling Input, these former
rapidly drifting high frequency oscillations that
could not be fathomed except by VHS camera techniques
are now readily seen as decoded by its ability to
properly synch these former signals in time. I have
understood Terry's description of this functional
ability to observe TV signals on the TV coupling
option only with blank understanding, all that I know
is that it serves to decode this kind of HF info.
Concerning using this to  record the frequency of very
long 14 gauge coil systems  many feet away by direct
wire connection to respond to electric field plates
wired in several inches of vicinity from the high
inductance/ High freq BRS field coils: those  sensing
coils in turn only vibrate according to their own self
resonant frequency as a higher harmonic of the source
emittor. This is seen as sensible in light of the fact
the the High induction bipolar Coil system has a
length of 18 miles of 23 gauge wire in tank circuit
configuration, and two coils of 9 miles in 180 phased
series resonant configuration, leading to a
hypothetically extremely low intitial freq as the
original source frequency, and the components it
vibrates in free unhindered oscillations as a harmonic
of that originator. This is a better way of explaining
a source that appears to have no originator freq, as
this has not directly been found. However now that
that hurdle has been crossed many tests of different
coils can begin, including those secondaries brought
to the teslathon, but in those tests the shunt
capacitance of the scope itself should be considered a
relative value to be factored in as giving a value to
be corrected. However the following examples of self
resonant frequencies found by this  high induction
coil method(exclusively using the primitive analogue
TV coupling option found on Heath 4221 20 MgHz or
higher scopes) is given as found with large 14 gauge
coils placed in series (store bought plastic core ,air
core multilayered wound) 

 Cycle time of 2.6 div-at- 20 us/div= 19,230 hz for a
toroidal coil system of  thirty 14 gauge 500 ft coils 
for total of 15,000 ft:
10 coils (5000 ft) showed cycles at 1.6 div -at-20us/div
or 31,250 hz. 
15 coils(7500 ft) produced a frequency of 25,000 hz.
20 coils(10,000 ft) produced a frequency of 20,833 hz,
but that also represents part of the second half of
the toroid turning back on itself for greater
induction in space. Adding a great air capacity in
series to this (4.2 nf) reduced both the frequency
(and amplitude) to around 16,666 hz

HDN






=====
Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb-dot-com/mbs.cgi/mb124201

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