[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [TCML] "Lifter" power supply questions

It wouldn't surprise me if the thrust is a lot greater under oil. Giving oil an electrostatic charge occurs and oil gets quite agitated under HV.. Corona is not necessary for this, just proximity, radius of curvature of the electrode and voltage. Of course, the proximity can be much closer under oil. A small TC will work with an ionic spinner but not a large TC. I have used a 14 foot arm that spun well with 60kV DC but not at all with a TC giving 3 foot sparks. I suspect the difference is how far the charged air moves before the next reversed voltage cycle. Too close and the charged air cloud gets attracted back rather than a new cloud being repelled into relatively uncharged air. 
http://tesladownunder.com/Lifters.htm#IonicSpinners
Leaking of charge into air with corona is a chaotic affair in part due to cosmic radiation. Anyone who has seen a working cloud chamber will know how much ionisation is going on unseen. 

Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: stork3264@xxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:12 AM
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCML] "Lifter" power supply questions

Peter,
I take it that you are aware of ASC thrust under oil? Only a little bit slower due to the viscosity of oil. Not a lot of corona or ions under oil. Just maybe there are other explanations for ASC thrust.
My theory is that the HV hissing and vibration that occurs around a lifter at HVDC occurs just prior to true break down. This is responsible for voltage and/or current oscillation which is probably necessary for ASC thrust. I suspect 
dV/dT or even dI/dT is quite important .
The same mechanism is responsible for Tesla coil spinners. The altenating HV potential being supplied by the TC.
So, here's a question - If a very smoothed regulated HVDC source is applied to a TC secondary with a spinner attached to the toroid and slowly ramped up will it spin at HVDC? At the point of break out from the spinner tips, 
will it spin? Lastly, what does the wave form at break of look like?
I have built simple lifters and experimented with flat two dimensional horizontal ASC thrusters and I agree 
with you, this is not antigravity.

Stork
----- Original Message ----- From: mrapol@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:22:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TCML] "Lifter" power supply questions

I appreciate all the advice offered. I'm not a believer in antigravity. I
just wanted to build and fly a lifter. I understand DC is best (or even the
only thing to use), but when other people say I can use ignition coils or
NSTs, I am curious to find out how. The Hamilton Drills induction coil does
not do anything for the lifter but cause it to arc furiously, even using the
HV diodes peddled by the maker.

So far only the flyback in the CRT has done anything for the lifters. I have
built two of the triangular foil-and-wire type, powered by a CRT monitor.
They lift, though not as well as I would like. The device seems very
sensitive to the gauge and length of wire used to connect it to the power
source. If anyone has optimal suggestions on that score I'd like to hear
them.

My ultimate aim is to build a "thruster" on a spindle to demonstrate the
concept to others. I guess I should build a flyback power source (there are
lots of plans for them around), but I was hoping to use one of the devices I
had on hand.

PBT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Terren" <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TCML] "Lifter" power supply questions



As I have asserted early in this thread, I believe the best performance is
with smoothed DC to give large amounts of stable corona short of sparking.
An ignition coil as per the original enquiry is composed of short pulses
of low duty cycle. Power is only available while the voltage is applied
so a 10% duty cycle means 10% power for that peak voltage.
I know of no-one who has constructed a successful lifter with these.
I have made one that can carry its own weight in payload (3g) using 80kV
smoothed DC from a CW multiplier derived from a Royer driven flyback.
http://tesladownunder.com/Lifters.htm#Lifters-80kV
I agree with Antonio's comments. Sadly lifter enthusiasts are almost as
prone to pseudoscience as Tesla enthusiasts are and the whole field is
muddied by antigravity and asymmetrical capacitor nonsense.
Unfortunately it is real "rocket science" as ion drives are used in a
thrusters in various spacecraft. Real scientists understand it perfectly
well and they don't use Naudin's site for reference, I'm sure.
Amateur experimentation will be plagued by the difficulties of
measurement. Even simple voltage measurement at the lifter itself is
difficult and the loading effect of even changing polarity giving
different corona levels will be significant.
Similarly any force measurements will be disturbed by electrostatic
attraction to adjacent structures.
To keep some association with Tesla coils I have observed that, while
small coils drive ionic spinners quite well (where corona thrust is also
used), a large(ish) Tesla coil has almost no effect.
http://tesladownunder.com/Lifters.htm#IonicSpinners

Cheers
Peter


_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla



_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla