[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [TCML] max performance per secondary diameter/resonate inductor.



Hi guys,
Wow, really 5.3x?!?!? I don't think racing arcs are possible with my setup, it has a very thick coat of polyurethane and right now the primary coil is actually 1/4 in above the bottom of the magnet wire on the secondary, raising it higher lowers output but does not cause racing sparks, but like I mentioned I'm using a wicked break rate so that must help (I also think it is too wide with a center diameter of 5.5 inches for a 4 inch coil.) One thing I did differently on this coil is the bottom and top 10 or so turns were done with 18AWG THHN, so I figured the extra insulation, wire diameter, and surface area from braided wire will keep currents busy in the wire and not allow leakage as corona, which in my mind should hinder racing arcs (if they aren't spawned from local corona then what causes them?) Perhaps there is no benefit, but it sure makes connections easier and sort of looks cool! Well I guess this means I'll need a bigger top load if I am to get any more out of it, I hope I have enough primary to pull this off, I've only one more turn before I need to add on. My current top loads are a 4x15 and a 7.5x30, the next I have is a 12x34 (stove pipe toroid) and after that a 12x50 (truck tube toroid, probably too big for a 4 inch coil...) In any event forget about my second question, I realized shortly after I sent it that adding a resonate inductor with the tank cap would be no different then heavily ballasting to bring the tank cap into resonance or LTR or whatever with the power supply, so it would increase "efficiency of available power" but drastically cut "available power" over no ballast, and thus certainly not improve spark length (nothing in life is really free I guess.) Best case scenario (resonate inductor) I'd break even power wise minus DC resistive losses. I suppose LTR will have to remain the domain of NST coilers using low break rates, or coilers with insane funds for coiling. Thanks guys, in any event now I have to shoot for 5.4X, wow that is 104 inches, I cannot imagine this being possible with 2 MOTs... I guess I'll be happy with 2.7X for now.

Scott Bogard.

On 7/19/2010 10:17 PM, Phillip Slawinski wrote:
Scott,

I don't think there is any table that shows a maximum spark length vs
secondary diameter.  That's only one parameter in a long list of parameters
that determine the maximum spark you can get from a coil.  The limit to the
spark length you can achieve with a particular secondary will depend on the
voltage stress seen across the secondary, and on how you control this
stress.

For a while I have been working on a coil specifically designed to return a
large spark length to secondary length ratio.  So far I've reached 5.3333X
(54" vs 12" secondary).  The secondary diameter is 3.5".  I had to take many
steps to ensure that the coil form did not break down internally, or
externally.  In addition I had to make sure that the coil would not
continuously arc between primary and strike rail.

Much of what I saw in testing agrees with what John says below.  My coil can
not run at low break rates, it just flashes over.  Also the coil has to have
a pretty massive top load (18"x4.5") considering the size of the coil to
achieve 54".  Before I put the larger top load on the coil the sparks were
not able to reach as far.  In the case of my coil bang energy is independent
of break rate.  Running at a higher break rate allows me to run larger bang
energies due to the spark loading bringing down the top voltage of the coil.

-Phillip Slawinski

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 17:27,<futuret@xxxxxxx>  wrote:

Scott,

Generally speaking, you should be able to get longer sparks from a given
secondary size at high bps compared to low bps.  This is because the
bang size is much smaller at high bps (for a given input power) so it
stresses the secondary less.  The ability of a secondary to survive high
input power should depend more on the length of the coil than on the coil
diameter I would think.  Much also depends on the type of wire insulation,
number of turns, secondary coating,  toroid size, presence of a corona
ring on top of the secondary, shape of the primary, etc..   On my old
research coil which had a 4" x 23" secondary wound with 28awg wire
running at 120 bps, I began to get racing sparks when the sparks reached
about 56" or so.  I don't remember if I experimented with higher bps with
that coil.  I don't know of any tests that anyone ever did to compare
how a given coil stands up to low bps vs. high bps, for a given spark
length.
I would think that high bps might tolerate a smaller toroid size also for
a given spark length, because the high bps should be able to create
longer sparks via bang-to-bang spark growth compared to a lower bps
coil for a given input power.  I don't know of any tests that were done
specifically to test this idea.  (one of the things I never got around to
testing).

Richard Hull's Nemesis secondary was 14" x 46" I think, and he
got 15 foot sparks.  But it probably could have given longer sparks
if he had the space since the secondary didn't show any signs of
breakdown.  He was operating at around 400 bps probably.

Cheers,
John










-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Bogard<sdbogard@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List<tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jul 19, 2010 5:06 pm
Subject: [TCML] max performance per secondary diameter/resonate inductor.


Greetings all,
   Ok finally got my 4-inch coil back up and running after a year, got sick
of burning out MOTs and decided to use only two (surprisingly my spark gap
manages Ok despite being less than a work of art.)  Current results is 54
inch max spark frequent strikes up to 51 inches (a personal record for me
using a coil this small, and a record for my efficiency by Freau number of
all my coils so far) now I'm space limited unless I roll it outside so I'm
fairly pleased with the performance, half the voltage, assuming double the
current, twice the arc length. Anyway my question is this, is there a table
someplace that will demonstrate the longest practical arc-length per
secondary diameter, I don't think I can expect to get much more out of one
this small, let alone using only 4kV input and a cap way to small for
resonate (I have to be running nearly 700-800bps to get the results I do.)


_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla