Re: [TCML] JAVATC Misunderstanding

[bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Phillip,

Regarding your Javatc questions asked:

The "proximity between coils" is simply how near the secondary is to the 
primary (their proximity to one-another). Because there are so many 
possible configurations of secondary and primary coils, the program will 
find the "nearest" point of one coil to the other regardless of it's 
geometry. For example, if two helical coils are used and the primary was 
2" larger in radius and the top turn of the primary was also 2" below 
the bottom secondary turn, the nearest points between the two coils will 
be the output in Javatc. It accounts for the horizontal and vertical 
distance. The program knows where each coil is at in relation to the 
other. In every other program and older Javatc, the horizontal distance 
was the only thing looked at. All I've done is taken it to the next step 
of identifying the actual distance in a 3D world. The wire size is part 
of this as well (and needed in some cases). It basically tells you the 
distance in a direct line the nearest "edge" of the primary to the 
nearest "edge" of the secondary. It will also identify a "crash" between 
coils. The programs simply won't allow an intersecting primary to 
secondary configuration. It checks "crashes" during it's validation routine.

After figuring out how to do that, I was then able to realize that I 
have to objects of a fixed distance, at a particular voltage, which 
allows for a "minimum proximity" to be calculated (to prevent arcing 
between coils). The minimum proximity is based on the primary size and 
the arc voltage in relation to the proximity and geometry.

Proximity is partially important for coupling. But there are 
configurations where the best coupling is nearing breakdown between 
primary and secondary. I therefore ensure both "recommendations" are an 
output so the user could identify a potential problem. The program 
basically is telling you that there is a calculated risk and the values 
associated at those risks. In most cases, as you lower coupling, you 
also increase the arc voltage, but not with all configurations. There 
are cases where lowering k does not decrease the arc voltage. Helical to 
helical is a prime example. Arc voltage begins decreasing when the top 
end is low enough below the secondary that the proximity is greater than 
the horizontal difference. A lot of issues like this are considered. The 
most difficult were conical coils with conical coils (or inverse with 
inverse cones). All of those possibilities are accounted for in the same 
manner.

Take care,
Bart

P Tuck wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Thanks for the replies to my earlier thread “Capacitor Choice Reassurance”.
>
>  
>
> The other query I have regards Bart’s JavaTC program.
>
> Could someone explain what the following two outputs in JavaTC actually
> mean.
>
>  
>
> (My complete JAVATC design is at the bottom of this post.)
>
>  
>
> 0.835 inch = Proximity between coils
>
> 1.01 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils
>
>  
>
> I have found an old thread in the archives from Bart (titled "JAVATC Version
> 11 (fwd)" from  19th Aug 2007) when he updated JAVATC to version 11,
>
> In it he explains what he has changed in the version, and mentions these two
> particular terms that I am having trouble understanding :-
>
>  
>
> Cut and pasted  >>>>>>>>
>
>  
>
> 5) Replaced "Clearance Between Coils" with "Proximity Between Coils". 
>
> This value accounts for any geometry, any inversion of coil inputs, any 
>
> position, any wire size. Yes the wire size is included so that the 
>
> nearest point of the two coils is "exact". This particular enhancement 
>
> took a lot of work to get right (over 4000 runs to test and verify the 
>
> geometric and positional possibilities). BTW, if the two coils butt into 
>
> one another, this is identified as a CRASH! The program will not run a 
>
> crashed configuration. This prevents issues with Geotc which can get 
>
> locked up. I've noticed this in the past on some configurations. This 
>
> geotc problem is now prevented.
>
>  
>
> 6) A new output under the primary area: "Recommended Proximity Between 
>
> Coils". This output is positioned directly below the current proximity 
>
> number and is calc'd only if transformer data is inserted in the 
>
> transformer section. It will identify how far away the nearest point 
>
> between both coils should be.
>
>  
>
> End of cut and paste >>>>>>>>>>>
>
>  
>
> If I am understanding these two terms correctly, does my output value of
> 0.835 inches for the "Proximity between coils"  distance, mean there is a
> problem?  
>
> Because the data then goes on to say that the closest the coils should get,
> according to my understanding of the " Recommended minimum proximity between
> coils",  is 1.01 inches?
>
> So are the primary and secondary distances (1.01 – 0.835 = 0.175 inches )
> too close?
>
>  
>
> Or is my understanding of these two particular terms, "Proximity between
> coils" 
>
> and "Recommended minimum proximity between coils", totally wrong?
>
>  
>
> Regards
>
> Philip
>
>  
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> J A V A T C version 11.8 - CONSOLIDATED OUTPUT
>
> 01 September 2008 22:19:54
>
>  
>
> Units = Inches
>
> Ambient Temp = 68°F
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Surrounding Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 100 = Ground Plane Radius
>
> 100 = Wall Radius
>
> 150 = Ceiling Height
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Secondary Coil Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Current Profile = G.PROFILE_LOADED
>
> 2 = Radius 1
>
> 2 = Radius 2
>
> 23 = Height 1
>
> 43 = Height 2
>
> 1104.97 = Turns
>
> 26 = Wire Awg
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Primary Coil Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 3 = Radius 1
>
> 8.18 = Radius 2
>
> 23 = Height 1
>
> 23 = Height 2
>
> 8.2231 = Turns
>
> 0.315 = Wire Diameter
>
> 0.02143 = Primary Cap (uF)
>
> 30 = Total Lead Length
>
> 0.2 = Lead Diameter
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Top Load Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Toroid #1: minor=4, major=16, height=45, topload
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Secondary Outputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 236.07 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency
>
> 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary
>
> 20 inch = Length of Winding
>
> 55.2 inch = Turns Per Unit
>
> 0.00216 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge)
>
> 1157.1 ft = Length of Wire
>
> 5:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio
>
> 46.8419 Ohms = DC Resistance
>
> 32742 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance
>
> 0.89 lbs = Weight of Wire
>
> 22.074 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance
>
> 23.253 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance
>
> 22.667 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
>
> 20.591 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance
>
> 19.547 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance
>
> 31.706 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance
>
> 6.06 mils = Skin Depth
>
> 16.347 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance
>
> 125.8303 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance
>
> 260 = Q
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Primary Outputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 236.06 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency
>
> 0 % = Percent Detuned
>
> 0 deg° = Angle of Primary
>
> 24.07 ft = Length of Wire
>
> 2.52 mOhms = DC Resistance
>
> 0.315 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge)
>
> 0.835 inch = Proximity between coils
>
> 1.01 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils
>
> 20.446 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
>
> 0.02143 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference)
>
> 0.861 µH = Lead Length Inductance
>
> 87.077 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance
>
> 0.128 k = Coupling Coefficient
>
> 0.129 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient
>
> 7.81  = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K
>
> 16.38 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Transformer Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 235 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage
>
> 10000 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage
>
> 48 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current
>
> 50 [Hz] = Mains Frequency
>
> 235 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage
>
> 0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current
>
> 4.1 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance
>
> 12700 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Transformer Outputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 480 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA
>
> 207359 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence
>
> 10000 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage
>
> 2.05 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current
>
> 0.0482 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current
>
> 482 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA
>
> 0.0154 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size
>
> 0.023 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size
>
> 0.0398 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size
>
> 28 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size
>
> 14142 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap
>
> 35355 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating
>
> 2.14 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy
>
> 459 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current
>
> 31.7 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp.
> factors)
>
> 69.2 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Rotary Spark Gap Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 0 = Number of Stationary Gaps
>
> 0 = Number of Rotating Electrodes
>
> 0 [rpm] = Disc RPM
>
> 0 = Rotating Electrode Diameter
>
> 0 = Stationary Electrode Diameter
>
> 0 = Rotating Path Diameter
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Rotary Spark Gap Outputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 0 = Presentations Per Revolution
>
> 0 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
>
> 0 [mph] = Rotational Speed
>
> 0 [ms] = RSG Firing Rate
>
> 0 [ms] = Time for Capacitor to Fully Charge
>
> 0 = Time Constant at Gap Conduction
>
> 0 [µs] = Electrode Mechanical Dwell Time
>
> 0 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
>
> 0 [peak volts] = Effective Cap Voltage
>
> 0 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
>
> 0 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
>
> 0 [power] = Energy Across Gap
>
> 0 [inch] = RSG Spark Length (using energy equation)
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Static Spark Gap Inputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 2 = Number of Electrodes
>
> 0.25 [inch] = Electrode Diameter
>
> 0.16 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing
>
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Static Spark Gap Outputs:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> 0.16 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode
>
> 14142 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage
>
> 10141 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage
>
> 36888 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode
>
> 63383 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit
>
> 71.7 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
>
> 7.906 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage
>
> 126 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
>
> 1.1 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
>
> 335789 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
>
> 139 [power] = Energy Across Gap
>
> 31.9 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)
>
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>
>   
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