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Re: [TCML] Poly thickness (does matter!)
Exactly,
What I'm referring to is that both Fred and I were staring at the coil during the entire shoot and neither of us saw, nor did we remember seeing the flash overs that appeared in the "before" photo. We were both totally astonished when we looked at the picture. As strange as it sounds, the camera saw things that we didn't. I guess it's kind of like when an astronomer takes a long time exposure of the milky way galaxy...the longer the shutter is open, the more stars you see. Remember, this was a three minute exposure! BTW, Fred is a retired forensics photographer and has won great status from his peers during his 30+ years as a police officer and photo journalist. When someone tells him "it can't be done"....it only becomes a bigger challenge! Kind of like what we like to do with our coils; take for example the announcement that someone made not so long ago that: " You can't play a Theremin through a Tesla Coil.....it's a lost cause; can't be done". I do personally remember lots of correspondence here on the list the activity and challenges amongst the Tesla Coil community on this subject, so this became a personal challenge of mine. Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K41aPR2bKg I have yet to see anyone with any evidence of performing this experiment to date. Not sure why. So when someone tells me "it can't be done".....lets get it on!
Back to the original subject. I think I may have another "spare" secondary identical to the one shown, wound at the same time and sprayed with the same Dupont Clomaclear coating. If I were to find it, I would definitely want to do the same experiment "side by side"....that way there's absolutely no question about the out come.
Finally, I would like to point out that Dr. Spark and I did not come out of the birth canal knowing what we do about Tesla Coils. We learned it the hard way through trial and error. Please reference some of the videos on youtube under http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wZoKYHu5FQ . There are many videos here showing the proper ways to build your project. I realize that there are many out there with limited resources. Learn from those that have "been there, done that". Study physics and electronics. The biggest gift to me would be someone who goes to the next step. I showed the comparison of one or two coats vs. 20 or more coats of finish on a small 11 1/2" tall secondary in as accurate detail as possible. Use this information as a building block on your next coil.
Regards,
Woo
Sorry, no armchair coilers allowed here.
> [Original Message]
> From: bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 7/15/2008 7:35:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Poly thickness (does matter!)
>
> Hi Woo,
>
> When you refer to the racing sparks being invisible to the naked eye,
> could you elaborate? All the racing sparks I've encountered were
> certainly visible. Are those simply noticed in photograph versus no
> memory of them during running?
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
> dr.hankenstein@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > I do agree that the sparks in the "after" photo appear quite a bit smaller
> > than the "before" photo. You have to remember that there was a four month
> > laps in time between the two pictures. We kept looking at the first photo
> > to try to determine exactly where the camera was and tried our best to
> > place it accordingly. If you examine the "after" photo carefully, you will
> > notice that the coil appears quite a bit smaller than in the first,
> > indicating the camera was either further away, or the zoom was a little
> > differently set. The sparks are the same length except they tended to want
> > to be more on the right in the "after" photo for some reason. Also, for
> > your information, the variac was at 20 ~ 25%.......this is another
> > variable, and: I racked the variac up to full power for 2 secs during the
> > last ten secs of the exposure in both instances for effect. I do not
> > believe that this had any bearing on the "racing sparks" that we actually
> > did not even witness during either film take. The racing sparks were
> > invisible to the human eye! The camera added a "bonus" if you will to the
> > overall experiment. The main objective was to see what the difference would
> > be by adding substantially more insulation to the original secondary
> > winding. The results are clear....longer sparks, no racing sparks at any
> > available power level on this coil configuration. Hope that clears anything
> > up as far as what, where, why and how we pursued this adventure. I would be
> > interested in other ideas / comments for future implementation.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Woo
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
> >> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: 7/14/2008 7:01:19 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [TCML] Poly thickness (does matter!)
> >>
> >> Hi Woo,
> >>
> >> I reviewed your experimental write-up at
> >>
> > http://www.audiotesla.org/corona%20experiment.htm
> >
> >> The thing that strikes me is that in the before and after photos under
> >>
> > "The Results", the spark length in the After photo appears to be
> > significantly shorter than in the Before photo. The Before photo shows the
> > corona skirt and racing sparks, and this would all be consistent with
> > either less power being applied, or reduced couping in the After photo.
> > This makes me less than certain that conditions were actually identical.
> > But I can fully appreciate the difficulty in duplicating conditions over
> > such a long interval.
> >
> >> While strong evidence might persuade me to think that some coating types
> >>
> > might affect the tendency to develop racing sparks, it's a stretch to
> > suggest that spark length might be significantly affected. It's my
> > understanding that the E-field surrounding the secondary and top-load is
> > governed by the geometry of conductors, not insulators.
> >
> >> The photographs you took are an excellent diagnostic tool. It's a shame
> >>
> > that most common digital cameras can't achieve the equivalent film speed of
> > ISO 1600 without being overwhelmed by noise. Your images clearly show that
> > the toroid is too far from the top of the secondary to adequately shield it
> > and prevent the corona skirt that begins at the top of the secondary. I
> > would wager that if you added a very small toroid just above the secondary,
> > it would eliminate the skirt, and permit a higher coupling before racing
> > sparks occur.
> >
> >> Regards, Gary Lau
> >> MA, USA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>> Behalf Of dr.hankenstein@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:14 PM
> >>> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> >>> Subject: [TCML] Poly thickness (does matter!)
> >>>
> >>> Gary,
> >>>
> >>> I beg to differ with you on this point. I used to think the same thing
> >>>
> > until we did a
> >
> >>> recent experiment: I refinished an old secondary, one I had been using
> >>>
> > for 14 years
> >
> >>> and was astonished what 20+ coats of fresh polyurethane did for the
> >>>
> > coils
> >
> >>> performance. Noted was the elimination of a "corona skirt" under the
> >>>
> > gradient ring
> >
> >>> (top load). The occasional racing sparks have been eliminated not to
> >>>
> > mention I now
> >
> >>> have the closest coulpling possible with this coil. I used to use a 1"
> >>>
> > spacer under
> >
> >>> the secondary to decouple the coil. Spark length has increased 4 to 6"
> >>>
> > as well. For
> >
> >>> more details, please check out the article I wrote on this experiment
> >>>
> > at:
> >
> >>> http://www.audiotesla.org/corona%20experiment.htm
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Woo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> [Original Message]
> >>>> From: Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
> >>>> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Date: 7/1/2008 10:01:59 AM
> >>>> Subject: RE: [TCML] Poly thickness
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not convinced that coating a secondary with anything
> >>>>
> > significantly improves it
> >
> >>> electrically. Mostly it's to keep the windings from shifting on the
> >>>
> > form, and to
> >
> >>> provide a small amount of armor should something bump into it. And
> >>>
> > probably
> >
> >>> most importantly, it just makes the coil look nice and shiny. No
> >>>
> > matter what one
> >
> >>> coats the secondary with, it's still vulnerable to racing sparks if it
> >>>
> > is overcoupled.
> >
> >>>> Regards, Gary Lau
> >>>> MA, USA
> >>>>
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
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