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RE: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet ...]
I'm far from an expert, but consider this an extra data point:
http://www.classictesla.com/hot-streamer/adam/bigass_coil/schematic.pdf
http://www.classictesla.com/hot-streamer/adam/bigass_coil/design.pdf
http://www.classictesla.com/hot-streamer/adam/bigass_coil/coil09.jpg
The two .pdf's and the .jpg are not in sync, as I'm WAY out of date with photos and write-ups.
FWIW, I have killed two VFD's and a Lincoln 225 Welder (the old 100% copper kind) with my set-up. Perhaps there's a better way?
Sorry for the traffic Bart. I need to move my stuff to a more permanent place. If you'd like, I (and others) can refer to our links via private email to the original poster in the future. This might cut down on traffic.
Adam
--- On Wed, 12/17/08, Jim Mora <wavetuner@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Jim Mora <wavetuner@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet ...]
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 5:27 PM
> Hi David,
>
> I noticed the dual x-ray cable runs. Are they striped back
> on both ends? The
> bad thing about that is the shield is floating...which
> makes an otherwise
> very safe cable design dangerous. There was also a pic of a
> blue and a gray
> cable twisted together. What's up with that? I may take
> DC's advise and put
> the big PT in a separate cabinet and bring out dual cables.
> The isolated
> primary seems like it may be the way to go assuming a large
> enough gap from
> the primary to secondary windings. I wish there was some
> consensus here. The
> pros seem to ground the inner turn of the primary.
>
> Jim Mora
>
> Did you have a safety gap across the Cap?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of David%20Rieben
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:54 AM
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet
> ...]
>
> Hi Phillip,
>
> After reviewing my little youtube segment of my Green
> Monster running, it appears me that you may indeed
> be correct about the primary not drawing as many
> strikes if it is not tied to RF ground:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWZD3M-nye8
> At the time that I was running it here, I did have two se-
> perate transmission lines running to the primary tank
> circuit (you can see the 2 x-ray cables on the ground
> in this video) and the primary was not tied to any
> ground even though the RF grounded strike rail was
> up at this time. If you review the video, you'll note
> that
> there was only two noticable strike rail hits, so maybe
> you're on to something here. I'll have to try
> running it
> this way again and see if there is a notable decrease
> in primary bound hits. I'm still not sure that the
> primary
> strike that you saw just before the Hipo cap died was
> the cause of the cap's death, though - maybe it was
> just the "straw that broke the camel's back"!
>
> BTW, I can still run my single eared pig in this fashion
> as the tank sits on a dry plywood base inside the con-
> trol panel and the pole mount brackets are fastened to
> wooden 2x4's - the external tank of my pig has no con-
> tact with any grounded metal.
>
> David Rieben
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Phillip Slawinski
>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
>
> Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:48:03 +0000 (UTC)
>
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet
> ...]
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
>
>
> Perhaps it was not the primary strike that killed the
> capacitor. It could
>
> have just been coincidence that there was a strike to the
> primary. Maybe
>
> the Hipotronics cap was a ticking time bomb, we will
> probably never know.
>
>
>
> My main point in starting this thread was to discuss
> whether or not
>
> grounding the primary increases the chances that streamers
> will strike the
>
> primary vs. having a primary where both ends are above
> ground potential. To
>
> me it seems like when you have a grounded strike rail, and
> a grounded
>
> primary you're practically begging the streamers to hit
> in that area.
>
>
>
> My experience with my 6" coil would seem to prove that
> having a grounded
>
> primary does invite streamers to strike it more frequently.
> There could
>
> also be other factors that led to the primary being struck
> so frequently.
>
> On the day in question it was very cold outside so David
> was running his
>
> huge heater in his garage. This heater was pointed in the
> general direction
>
> of my coil. This could have caused an updraft. I noticed
> that throughout
>
> the run the streamers were mostly reaching upward, unless
> they came down to
>
> hit the primary. It probably had enough potential to hit
> the driveway, but
>
> perhaps the updraft prevented this from happening.
>
>
>
> -Phillip
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:22, Lau, Gary wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Phillip,
>
> >
>
> > I don't doubt that you saw a primary strike just
> prior to David's cap
>
> > dying. But I think it's not always easy to
> separate cause and effect.
>
> >
>
> > Conservation of energy will not allow the primary cap
> to be recharged by a
>
> > streamer-strike to a higher voltage than before the
> gap fired. So I don't
>
> > think that's what killed the cap, although
> certainly possible that I
> missed
>
> > something.
>
> >
>
> > Instead, let me propose this. What if through RSG
> misfiring or some other
>
> > conspiracy of events, the cap was able to charge to a
> higher-than-normal
>
> > voltage. When the gap did fire, it would be a bigger
> than normal bang,
>
> > resulting in a longer secondary streamer, and able to
> strike something
>
> > (primary) normally out of reach? The over-charging of
> the cap as a result
>
> > of gap miss-fire may be the cause of the cap's
> demise, rather than the
>
> > primary strike.
>
> >
>
> > I don't know, just an arm-chair perspective.
> Corrections, discussion, and
>
> > alternate theories are very welcome!
>
> >
>
> > Regards, Gary Lau
>
> > MA, USA
>
> >
>
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