[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [TCML] Tim's Qs was: can you connect the secondary *directly* to the primary



Hi Tim,

Good job recognizing the lead length inductance effect. Your coil is one of those coil sizes where the lead length will effect the coil tune point very much. Your in for a challenge because it's small. But, all can be successful if you pay attention to those details.

The spark gap is important for any coil. Base the spark gap on the power and voltage. I personally prefer large copper pipe (about 4" in length) which can be purchased ready to go at most hardware stores. Just use 2 part epoxy to secure them in line and to the distance you need. 5 to 7 pipes is all that is needed. This large surface area allows for a high power static gap. Base the distance between pipes on the peak voltage of the transformer for the number of pipes you use. I use simple 2 part epoxy. I set the first pipe as perfect as possible with the epoxy. Then I set the second pipe in position and lay a feeler gauge between the first and second pipe until the epoxy cures. I do this with each pipe to ensure a parallel and exact distance (one pipe at a time, no need to hurry).

Once all the pipes are set, just add a good fan to suck through the pipes. Here's an example and this particular coil is running a 12/60 with half it's shunts removed. The gap has always performed super excellent. The power is rather high with the modified NST (almost 200mA after modification which is why the sparks are so good).

http://www.classictesla.com/photos/ba45/ba45.html

That coils running a good amount of power through that simple static gap. The gap is keeping up however. This particular coil burned up the bottom turns about a month ago. I removed the burned turns and simply reconnected to RF ground. I also painted the coil a blood red color (Little Devil I'll call it now). I ran it last night just for my own personal enjoyment. It produced nice long powerful sparks. One thing it doesn't do any longer is arc down to the primary. For the past year I simply layed a round plexi disc on top of the primary. That stopped all the primary hits. Amazing what a little acrylic can accomplish. It's basically a disc about 1/2" larger than the outer turn of the primary and the center hole is about even with the inner turn of the primary. A simple 1/8" thick acrylic disc laying directly on top of the primary. It makes a difference. Who needs a strike ring? Well, I don't any longer. They just don't go down there since the acrylic. I'm not quite sure how to theorize it, but they don't. Sparks stay horizontal and hit everything they can reach. I don't think it's ever gone down to the primary since the addition of the acrylic.

Take care,
Bart

Tim Meehan wrote:
Thanks for the advice!

I heard so much bad stuff about the wood for the spark gap, so I ditched it
and got a scrap piece of delrin and bored some holes in it for the spark gap
(until I get a better one at the hardware store this weekend).

I have 2 foil capacitors (I guess - they aren't electrolytic, and they
aren't the pancake shaped ceramic ones ... they are about the size of a
cigarette lighter).  They are 0.01 microfarad 8kV rated, in series, so I
figued that they were 0.005 microfarad 16kV or so.  (Now that you guys
mention it - I never checked the capacitance to see if it was punched
through yet).

The NST is 120V pri / 9000 V sec, 30mA, 270 VA.  I am using a Variac to vary
the input also.

I went back to measure the secondary.  It is 989 turns of 28AWG on a
1.5inch diameter phenolic tube.  The height of the windings is about
12.5 inches and there is 1 inch of tube above and below the windings.
JAVATC said that it should have a Q in my configuration near 200.

I have a nice topload - a spun aluminum toroid from (
http://hometown.aol.com/futuret/page1.html) which measures roughly 2.5 inch
minor diameter, 6 inch major diameter.

I went back and ran with a ground connection to the secondary and got no
sparks again, so I decided that I would scrap my primary and go back to the
drawing board with JAVATC.  When I ran it with the "tune my coil" box
checked and a test helical primary I noticed something else that was
probably messing me up.  JAVATC said that with a 2-inch radius primary coil
I should have 6.8 turns, and that the inductance of the primary coil
was 5.7microhenry, and with 2 feet of primary leads (that were
0.857 microhenry) ... however I had a lot more than 2 feet of cable there -
I had about 5 feet, and I coiled it up to prevent it from getting tangled up
and in the way ... so the primary leads probably had at least as much
inductance as the primary coil if not more.

So, I'm probably going to be making some nicer secondary stands, and a
better RF ground needs to be located ...

Thanks for all the tips

On Nov 16, 2007 11:05 AM, <Mddeming@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Tim,

   A complete answer to your questions will require  more information than
you provided. See comments interspersed below:

In a message dated 11/16/07 1:56:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
btmeehan@xxxxxxxxx writes:

"This is my first tesla coil, I built it without consulting any  sensible
source of information on the web."

This is far more common than you'd think.


"All I had was a healthy respect (fear) of high voltage and a neon sign
transformer."

A little fear and a lot of respect is healthy at this point. What  voltage
NST? What current rating?


 "I made a spark gap out of two screws and a u-shaped block of  wood."

NOT GOOD! At ~10 kV and above, wood, with any degree of humidity, is
CONDUCTIVE!! Several heavy coats of varnish or polyurethane helps, but
it's  still
better to use HDPE or similar plastic. For your gap, use 2 brass bolts
 head to
head, or two round brass lamp finials, or two brass drawer pulls, or  two
round brass door knobs, etc. You can also use short sections of copper
 pipe in
parallel but your sum of all gaps should not exceed  2kVrms/mm. Also use
plenty
of air flow, vacuum cleaner, fan, pressure hose,  etc.


 "The choke coils are wound on a 3.5" long 3/8" diameter slugs of  ferrite
and they had a 1millihenry reading on the LCR meter at the  office.  I put
them
there to protect the NST, but I
have since found  out from members of this list that there are much better
ways to do  that."

Ditch the choke coils, use a terry filter if you can, but at least use a
safety gap. See the archives for details.


"The secondary that I built had a 1.5" diameter, 10" tall and has  a first
resonance at about 500kHz.  I used the frequency generator to  drive the
base
of the secondary and read the peak from an oscilloscope  probe used as an
antenna."

This is smaller diameter than most people build, but it's not bad for a
first time. Without knowing what size wire and how many turns, it's not
 possible
to analyze.

"The primary is 15 turns in a flat coil with an  inside diameter that is
1"
away from the base of the secondary coil (3.5"  diameter).  The primary
circuit and the NST are not grounded at  all."

Again, without knowing the spacing between turns, wire or tube size, or
outer diameter, there's not enough  to analyze. If this is fastened to a
 wooden
board and/or your using metallic fasteners, you probably have a high
resistance short circuit or two.



"The capacitor is a 1 uF 20 kV rating that I borrowed from someone at the
office.  I did let them know that there was a fairly good chance it might
 not
come back alive."

What type - mylar, mica, foil, film, ceramic, etc?? NOTE: Your cap
 voltage
rating should be not less than twice the output of your transformer.  If
you
have a 12 or 15 kV  NST you may have already punctured your  cap.


"I have a crude
ASCII art drawing, (obviously this only works with  fixed width font):

+---CHOKE---+--||--+
|         |      |          o
|           v      |   |
NST             PRI       SEC
|       ^      |          |
|           |      |   |
+---CHOKE---+------+---------+"

Ditch the chokes and add a safety gap. The general layout is OK. You
 should
have a least a Variac with a switch and a fuse for safety and control  as
a
minimum. You can add metering,  safety lockouts, contactors,  etc as
resources
permit, and as your lust for power grows. (And it  WILL!)


"It never sparked, however I have more enthusiasm than smarts for  RF ...
I also had the spark gap about 1/4" apart, and when it ran there were  big
cloudlike angry blue sparks ..."

Depending on the size of your NST, that may or may not have been too
 wide,
as mentioned above.
You may indeed have blown the cap and are now feeding all your power into
the gap.

"I am guessing that I am breaking about 20 good design rules  at this
point,
so I sought help before I shocked myself or blew up my  secondary coil."


You got here, and enlightenment does not care which door you came through
 or
how long your journey was.


"I am open to all criticism of the design, or pointers - I have  found
some of
the online resources for design such as JAVATC, etc.   and I'll probably
start working on version two using some of the designs  that I see on
other
pages ..."

Copying designs, even good ones, without understanding what or why, could
 be
VERY hazardous to your health. Ask many more questions, read more on the
principles and safety, and make haste very slowly.

Thanks  again,
Tim





Welcome,

Matt D.



************************************** See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla



_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla