Re: 3 Coil System Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil winding...with movies...(fwd)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:23:12 +0000
From: David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 3 Coil System      Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil
    winding...with movies...(fwd)

Hi Dr, all,

I'm gonna have to show my ignorance here and ask - why only 
1 mA? 1 MV is certainly an impressive potential to attain in this
scenario but with a 150 kVA power draw, a 1 MV output at on-
ly 1 mA denotes a mere 0.66 % effeciency. What am I missing?

David Rieben

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> 

> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:22:07 -0500 
> From: resonance 
> To: Tesla list 
> Subject: Re: 3 Coil System Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil 
> winding...with movies...(fwd) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Sloan (Stanford) achieved 1,000,000 Volts at 1 mA output from a simple 
> water cooled 1 inch dia copper pipe wound into a spiral with only 18 turns 
> on sec. The lower end was tapped at 2.2 turns and fed directly with a pair 
> of 15 kV vacuum tubes in CW mode. Power level was 150 kVA. It was in a 
> vacuum tank --- X-ray work for GE. Resonant rise due to Q factor 
> multiplication. 
> 
> Dr. Resonance 
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi Dave, 
> > 
> > Most magnifier systems are of the classic design with an L1:L2 driver 
> > situated a great distance from L3 and coupled via transmission line. L3 
> > is a standalone unit both in mutual inductance and the coil capacity 
> > itself with it's topload and ground. Those are completely different 
> > beast and follow different design rules which don't apply to this topic. 
> > 
> > Very few have built 3 coil systems of helical design as my hybrid maggy. 
> > A few of course have with flat coils, but I'd bet in nearly every case, 
> > it was similar to your coil in design where the solenoid resonance was 
> > determined by the L1 and L2 with L3 observed only as a capacity. Trying 
> > to get all three resonant through trial and error would be nearly 
> > impossible and a program would certainly be needed. Trial and error is 
> > very easy with a 2 coil system but not with a 3 coil system as we are 
> > discussing. 
> > 
> > You mentioned that anyone could replace the 3rd coil .... with a pipe of 
> > same dimensions and get the same results. That is true only if: 
> > 1) the 3rd coil is a close proximity coil as L1 and L2 are. 
> > 2) L1:L2:L3 are not designed to resonance. 
> > 3) L1 and L2 are resonant and L3 is seen as a capacity (which it is when 
> > 2 above is not true). 
> > 
> > But, if L1:L2:L3 "are" designed to resonance, the game changes, 
> > especially in a system with a flat secondary and helical solenoid. 
> > 
> > What would be really interesting is a high coupling 3 coil maggy in 
> > close proximity all using flat coils! Now that, we can model (unlike 
> > that cone topload object which is a real pain in the butt). 
> > 
> > Take care, 
> > Bart 
> > 
> > Tesla list wrote: 
> > 
> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
> >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:12:37 -0500 
> >>From: David Thomson 
> >>To: 'Tesla list' 
> >>Subject: RE: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil winding...with 
> >> movies...(fwd) 
> >> 
> >>Hi Bart, 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>>Bart just pointed out that the metal pipe you are using acts like a 
> >>>>waveguide, or third coil. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>Just the opposite. A third coil not in resonance acts more 
> >>>like a capacitively coupled topload object and the dimensions 
> >>>of the coil. The third coil is pretty much a pipe at that 
> >>>point. In Jeff's case, it's nothing more than a topload 
> >>>object. In your coil, the solenoid is acting like Jeff's pipe 
> >>>(just a topload object). 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >>It may be an opposite perspective, but it is the same thing, either way. 
> >> 
> >>A third coil has no inductive coupling with the secondary and acts like a 
> >>Helmholtz resonator. 
> >> 
> >>If my understanding is correct, anybody can replace the third coil on 
> >>their 
> >>magnifier with a copper tube of the same dimensions and get the same 
> >>results. 
> >> 
> >>Dave 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>