Re: Why cant we feel RF burns?

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: "Mike" <induction@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Sam,
             The RF has quite a deep skin effect depth, also the 
nerve path being nothing more than a digital one or zero needs time 
for the sodium pump to get a reset mode back in effect. When you feel 
"more pain" or when you tell an arm to "lift more"
the nerves which carry this data do not change amplitude beyond on 
and off, rather the pulse rep rate increases.
Once you go outside of the bandwidth nerves respond to and you are 
being RF burned, you will get this information (say it is a finger 
tip) in the form of thermal transfer, you feel heat. Of course as the 
heat has had a time advantage, your finger tip is already burned and 
you can now smell this as well.
At some point you may have noticed that if you touch ever so lightly 
a RF connection, you feel it, yet if you have placed a larger area on 
it, you do not. The lightly touched case is a result of less area, 
greater heat per smaller surface area and you react to the heat. 
Either case, you got nailed, in one, you knew sooner.
RF can be friend and foe; Frequency range is a big player, too.
I work for an induction heating equipment company, servicing or 
rebuilding for clients or resale.
We had a call from a university looking to buy or lease a MHz machine 
but wanted to run tests on it first to see if it would do what they 
wanted. These tests would take 2 days, require one of our technicians 
to run the trials these 2 days, so we agreed upon charging them the 
regular in-shop repair rate for the time involved.
Because I had negotiated the call, I got the job of doing the tech 
work as well.
They had been elsewhere and tried this at 13.56 MHz but things got 
too warm, 450 kHz did not heat some items well enough, now they 
wanted to try 2.5 through 8 MHz and we were up at bat.
These were breast cancer  researchers doing a feasibility study of 
injecting nano sized gold particles of various size ranges into a 
breast cancer tumor, then RF induction heating the tiny gold 
particles within so that via thermal transfer to the tissues, it 
would kill the cancer but not burn the patient, if it worked.
When the graduate student I would be working with arrived from the 
airport by taxi, he had all the items we spoke of on the phone and 
while we were setting up., I wrote down a few web addresses and links 
to files, handed the paper to him.
He was a bit confused; I told him that when, not if, when, this 
experiment did not work, if he was serious about the desired end 
result go look at www.ukrin.com  and read.
Regarding the RF heating, he had DI water as a control, DI water with 
gold nano particles, Distilled water with and without nano gold 
particles, normal saline (0.9 percent sodium chloride) with and 
without gold nano particles. He also had tissue of close to the same 
fat content as breast tissue.
We were to give each the same time at the same power and frequency in 
the 5 turn coil around the test tube. Same volumes within each tube per test.
He had a very precision temperature probe used before and after each 
timed RF exposure, logging all power, frequency and temperature data.
The DI and distilled waters alone did nothing of importance, the gold 
in each gave very slight heating, the 0.9 percent sodium chloride 
without gold, for the 30 second run, within a few seconds formed a 
steam bubble in the base to the test tube of such size and so quickly 
that it ejected nearly all the liquid out of the test tube. It burped 
the test tube nearly dry.
We were at ~ 5 MHz, 500 watts output. Later, reducing power, we found 
that the sodium chloride heated so fast, we could not find the gold 
heating as measurable. It may well also be the salt was shunting the 
energy from the gold.
Knowing that the sodium chloride, at exact levels as in our body , 
heated so much, the tests were doomed but still, we continued to run 
for data. The fatty tissue also heated to a point it slightly browned 
at the contact point of the test tube.
To place a field from an induction coil into a tumor at typical 
depths and heat the gold within to where it needed to be for effect 
meant a minimum power level, but this minimum power level by far 
heated the sodium chloride in the tissue and blood to excess.
But, RF is not always a bad thing, if used right. At a frequency 
within Tesla coil range, 120 kHz, there is some very interesting work 
going on to help people. Download and read 3288.pdf which describes 
not an induction usage as above, but a dielectric usage. Between two 
insulated electrodes and only between the electrodes, accounting that 
a body thick attenuation of ~ 7 dB
is expected, fast cell growth is disrupted. Not normal cells, just 
fast cells, like cancer. The e-field need only be ~2.7 volts CM
at the tumor site, after attenuation and at 120,000 Hz. The E-field 
bends parts of the bad cells as they divide, dooming them to fail. 
Good reading, well done paper by MD's with EE, pictures included.
Trials now in Europe, next year to the US, getting good results.
So, RF can be bad or it can be good, you just need to know where it will flow.
Mike


----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:51 PM
Subject: Why cant we feel RF burns?


> Original poster: d a <btoc3000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> I quote this from a website I came across:
>
> Burns: Due to the high frequencies involved, Tesla coils can cause 
> severe burns without the sensation of pain. These burns are 
> typically very deep and need long term medical attention.
>
> Does it mean that RF (because of the high frequencies), can induce 
> the current to flow along the blood vessels without flowing along 
> the membranes. As such, we wont be able to feel the pain because the 
> nerve cells, etc are located along the membranes and not inside any 
> blood vessels...
>
> Is it only RF current can be able to flow in the inner parts of the 
> body without flowing along the membranes (exterior) first? If so, 
> how is that possible? Do we just take it for granted that RF current 
> has this special property of allowing the current to flow in the 
> inner parts w/o any flowing along the exterior?
>
> Thanks
> Sam