Re: Terry's DRSSTC - 6000 BPS >:o)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: Jimmy Hynes <jphynes@xxxxxxxxx>

Hi,

On 5/4/05, Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi,
>
> At 11:42 PM 5/3/2005, you wrote:
> >Hey again,
> >
> >On 5/3/05, Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Original poster: Steve Conner <steve.conner@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >
> > > At 15:34 02/05/05 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >Original poster: Jimmy Hynes <jphynes@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >
> > > >Hey guys,
> > > >
> > > >What is the point of this? Why don't you just have a longer on time,
> > > >and a reasonable bps?
> > >
> > > That's what I just said :-P
> >
> >Sorry, I wasn't following too closely. Great minds think alike, right?
> >Or as your 'mum' would say, fools seldom differ :P
> >
> >Seriously though, are we going to get a response from Terry about it?
> >Unless I missed that too...
>
> At 25 repetitions at 6000 BPS.  The equivalent on time is over 4mS.  I am
> thinking this very long T3 time is more effective at creating long
> streamers than a continuous T1.  With the reprogrammed controller, I can
> easily test both modes side by side.

I didn't mean leaving it on for the whole 4ms, but closer to the sum
of 25 T1s (actually gonna be less because the current builds up).

So your guess is that it's better, mine is that it's worse. That
doesn't really matter because after you test it, we'll know for sure
:-)

> > > >If you take it to an extreme, and split the bang in enough pieces,
> > > >it's basically PWM, which is essentially lower peak power.
> > >
> > > I agree. That's how the current limiter on my PLL driver works- if the
> > > current gets too high it PWM's the drive by missing out cycles. So it's
> > > just the same idea of splitting the bang into pieces. I thought this 
would
> > > work better than just ending the bang at the first overcurrent event. It
> > > should put more power into a mismatched load like a ground arc.
> > >
> > > Here is a scope screenshot of the limiter under test at low power
> > >
> > > http://www.scopeboy.com/tesla/drsstc/driver2/111_1168.html
> > >
> > > You can see three places where it decided to miss a cycle. It will miss
> > > more or fewer as needed to keep the current to the level you set on the
> > > limit pot.
> >
> >Your scope shot is missing a cycle when it's pretty much reached
> >equilibrium, and the secondary voltage isn't really climbing anymore.
> >When it cuts out for a cycle, the heavy streamer load pulls it down
> >pretty fast. Terry's is sorta the opposite; it is off more often than
> >off, and climbs much faster than the ringdown due to the low streamer
> >load.
> >
> >In Terry's it seems that it might not hurt it too bad, since it climbs
> >up fast, but I still see no benifit. He's also cheating a bit by not
> >running it at full power :P
>
> The snow is dry now ;-))))  But have to do it tomorrow night....

Oh! So you did have a real reason. I'll look forward to the results.

>
> >The optimum bps (defined as streamer length/silicon in 'burst' mode)
> >has got to be around the thermal time constant from the die to the
> >case. I lost all my thermal models, so I can't throw out a number
> >here. If it's much faster, then your IGBTs are keeping the heat
> >anyway, so you might as well do a big bang. If its much slower, then
> >you could bang the secondary again, and hit the streamers before they
> >cool. If the streamer's themal time constant is quicker than the
> >IGBTs, then you're SOL (note: streamer growing could still be 'worth
> >it' if you're looking for spark length to coil size, but as far as
> >spark length/Si, it doesn't make sense.)
> >
> >What is the time constant of a streamer anyway? This could be found by
> >finding the 'knee' in the bps/spark length curve.
>
> That is what I was trying to do going from 100 to 1000 BPS.  However, the
> effects of ringing from the last streamer mess everything up.  The
> streamers go from very short to very long as the thing goes in and out of
> sync with that last bang.

With it barely breaking out, I can see that being a problem for two
reasons. One is that there is no load to bring it down before the next
bang, the other is that a small difference can look disproportionatly
big if it gets big enough to 'break out'. My coil (and Steve's) will
make short streamers, and then all of a sudden burst out into long
streamers. Mine will go from 6" to 6' at once. If I tested it at 6"
output, I could find that 'looking at it funny' could make a 10 fold
increase in spark length :P

That really shouldn't be a problem once you crank it up. Also, the
bigger streamers may cool slower...
>
>
> >This next paragraph is just me rambling and overcomplicating things,
> >so you could just skip it, but i'll leave it anyway-
> >Another thing to note is that it isn't really a pure RC time constant,
> >as I'm sure there's some non linearity in the dielectric strength/temp
> >curve. Instead of defining the time constant as the time it it takes
> >until the heat has 'pretty much' returned to normal, you can define it
> >as the time it takes for the dielectric strength to 'pretty much'
> >return to normal. I know the time constant is really 1/e, but its hard
> >to be exact with streamers, especially since we don't really know what
> >function of bps for spark length is.
>
> I am trying to figure that out ;-))  I can go from 40 to 6000 BPS now ;-)

Hehe, cool.
>
> Cheers,
>
>         Terry
>
>
> > > I got my new H-bridge more or less finished too. It'll soon be time to
> > > crash'n'burn! I know, I forgot the heatsink compound so it all has 
to come
> > > apart again.
> > >
> > > http://www.scopeboy.com/tesla/drsstc/build4/
> > >
> > > Steve Conner
> >
> >Hehe, cool. On a slightly off topic note, I'm working on making a
> >small one too. Nothing new, just for fun. I was gonna use the existing
> >uC controller, and existing secondary to make it easy. It turns out
> >that the little IGBTs are a bit more fussy about early switching than
> >the bricks. The hard switching causes huge spikes that kill them when
> >out of tune. Primary (or sec) feedback controller is on the way!
>
>