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RE: Theory acceptance- Displacement current?
Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Dave,
At 08:42 PM 6/30/2005, you wrote:
Hi Terry,
> It was a little more complex than that. We were wondering
> if one could "detect" the displacement current "flowing
through" the
> glass. Or, was the current induced by electron and hole
> bunching at the surfaces of the conductors on each side
> without electrons actually flowing through the glass (that is
> my thinking)...
Detectors are not the only valuable tool for Tesla coilers.
Theory works well, too. How do you "detect" the self capacitance
of a coil? How do you "detect" the coupling coefficient of the
primary and secondary? You can't, but you can calculate it from
other measurements.
Today, I always calculate since the calculations are far less error prone
and more accurate. Five years ago, calculations were "not an
option"... The "old timers" wish they could have done that, but most of
the new work was done by darn newbies and a even few folks that know very
little about Tesla coils... Today I had to figure out streamer
capacitances and was going to make an experiment. But E-Tesla6 could do it
far better, so it is, and now I am typing this ;-)
I don't think Jimmy and Steve's work with DRSSTCs was the result of old
timers holding them back. We were a skeptical for sure, but when those
pictures of big streamers started showing up, we old timers "folded like
lawn chairs"... I do remember a few fights about who had the best board ;-))
So what if we can't detect displacement currents? But if we can
write an equation or develop a model that helps us design a
better coil, why not use it? Maybe some don't want to use the
new model, but maybe I would?
And tell us if it works!! A lot of us don't get very excited until others
try something and also report that it works! "I" tied Jared's inductance
formula... But I could not get it to work... Maybe I made a mistake, so I
am checking...
Forgive those that don't think it is worth their time to try... It does
take a lot of time!!
I have developed all kinds of new equations useful for
manipulating charge and understanding the mechanical processes.
The mathematics work out fine. The only problem with my theory
is that it isn't the old men's theory. It's a new theory, yet it
is mathematically sound and testable.
And you started you own group to discuss it... We talked about it some
here but it was mostly about physics and not about Tesla coils. I assume
if we all joined your group and only talked about Tesla coils, it would be
a problem ;-)) We are "The Tesla Coil Builder's List". Those that wish to
explore your stuff can go to:
http://www.volantis.org/
And they will not have to worry about "us" ;-)
Be more honest. This list is not interested in new theories that
can make better Tesla coils, unless they are improvements on the
old theory. There is an absolute dislike on this list for
anything new.
I think in the last 5 years, practically everything about Tesla coils has
changed... Look at the computer programs and methods five years ago as
compared to now... Things have probably changed more in the last few years
than in the last 100 years... But I am not sure any great "theories" have
changed... We have just gotten better at using the ones we have.
I was sort of surprised to see or great streamer model of 1pF+220K for a
streamer load was in a book published 6 years ago... They figured it out
with pure old EM theory too and without fancy computers!! But they did
check it in a lab and used fancy computers later to verify it. They
mentioned many high voltage generators, but not Tesla coils... But their
stuff does not quite work for us in the present form due to near field
effects of the coil and toroid. So my other computer is cranking it's guts
out to make the corrections... No great new theory, just taking what is
known and adapting it for coiling use...
It's the "teaching an old dog to do new tricks
thing." Let's face it, if the guys with degrees on this list had
to pick up a new foundation for physics, they would essentially
be put back to ground zero. Their egos can't deal with that.
It's like the introduction of computers. The old-timers knew how
to balance their books on paper and didn't care about computers.
This held everyone else back while we waited for the old-timers
to retire.
A new foundation for physics is a massive thing and far beyond this list's
subject. I don't think we have any traditional theoretical physics folks
here anyway... We have electrical engineers, but they are trained to apply
EM theory, not change it...
I have developed a fairly detailed system of physics, based on
the same empirical data that the old-timers use. But unlike the
old-timers physics, my physics has a mathematically correct
Unified Force Theory. My theory quantifies the difference
between electrostatic charge and electromagnetic charge. This
opens all kinds of doors for Tesla coilers. Also, the geometry
of charge in this model is not a point, like it is in the
old-timers physics. The geometry of charge has a helical
structure, and this structure is mathematically derived from the
data. Tell me that a model with helical electrons isn't useful
for Tesla coilers.
It's like if the electrons were made of cheese. What difference does it
make. Physics is all excited about string theory too. But that does not
seem to affect "us". So far, I have not heard them say string number seven
controls streamer length in Tesla coils ;-)) And if they do, it had better
work, or we will discard their theory too...
Those 100 year old EM theories do have one giant advantage. After 100
years, they are "still" around!! Einstein and every other big physicist
have taken their shots at them over the years, but Maxwell's Equations are
still here....
But I know what it's going to come down to. This is a list for
building Tesla coils according to the old-timers.
"I" was a new comer once with lots of silly ideas. Many of those ideas
died fast with the help of my friends on the list finding the
errors. "Modeling" Tesla coils was a "joke" not to many years ago. I did
not worry that everyone thought it would not work. I just made models and
used them and folks eventually caught on that they were useful. So, the
few "right" ideas did not need much help...
It is not
about building coils according to Nikola Tesla's designs or
theories.
Only "old timers" do that ;-)
And this is not a list for new theories.
Actually, a lot or our progress is "finding" theories, ideas, and
techniques that have "been around for years" and using or adapting them to
Tesla coil uses. Most of the ideas we use have been available for
decades!! But being amateurs, we don't have a big budget or a boss telling
us to work overtime on it. So we are "slow" to catch on compared to what
is commonly done at say IBM, Motorola, HP, and the other big electronic
firms... E-Tesla is based on an EM theory that is about 200 years old
now!!! If say NASA were given a 20 billion dollar budget to figure out
Tesla coils, we might hold our own against them for the first "few days"
;-)) We are not the place to change the world's theories... When it comes
the theoretical physics, we are sort of bottom feeders living off what the
big brains throw us... If we swim up their too high, they will eat us alive!
So just say
it as it really is. There is nothing wrong with running the list
according to your own desires. If people don't like it, they can
go somewhere else.
This is how it really is!! You said it well!!
"This list is not a
place to discuss new theories. It is a list for people to build
Tesla coils that make long sparks, and nothing else."
Cheers,
Terry
Dave