RE: Two Manifestations of Charge - 3D version of ETesla - MicroSim

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Dave,

At 05:33 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> ....
>
> > A MicroSim schematic and model can now be drawn:
> >
> > http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-71.gif
>
> In the schematic you assume that the resistances are the same
> between terminals, meaning that you also assume the potentials
> are the same.  But we still don't know this to be a fact.

For the rod to ground arc, we can try Toepler's Equation:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/Gap_losses.pdf

Rgap = (0.8e-3 x 5cm x 0.85Atm) / (30pF x 65kV) = 1.74kohms.

That is certainly in our range of about 1kohm I used.  If we try it for the 
dim gap:

Rgap = (0.8e-3 x 5cm x 0.85Atm) / (3pF x 35kV) = 32.4kohm

That one is far higher!!  let me try these:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-75.gif

80 amps and 3 amps!

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-76.gif

10.5MW and 0.2mW...

It appears that the dim arc may have very little current indeed from this.

The dim are can be very dim though:
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-02.jpg
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-20.jpg
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-04.jpg

Or not there at all:
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-23.jpg

My previous guess for the top terminal to rod arc current was based on 
arcing without the rod:
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/DaveTest-57.jpg

But from this later information, that was clearly not a good test to 
use.  That would have just been the 30pF arc case...

So if Toepler is correct, the dim arc resistance and current is very low 
compared to the bright arc.  The models do not disagree with that case.



> ......
> Would the luminosity of the tube to ground spark be 10X or 100X
> greater, or some other value greater than the topload to tube
> spark based upon a 10X power difference?

It is non-linear I am sure.  At first the purple is sort of a cold ion 
discharge that probably does not have much heat so it does not need much 
power (like a neon bulb).  But when things start to get "white hot", then 
the heat and power much go way up (like an arc welder).  We also seem to 
have to worry about how long of time each arc lasts...

It is fairly straight forward to set up a high voltage caps and some high 
voltage resistors to test for such things.  I am sure it has been done many 
times so just have to find the papers...

I have shorted big 400V buss caps many times with resistors and the glow is 
dim purple and sizzling, but not terribly hot.  I have also shorted them 
with a screwdriver =8O The spot on ones eyes goes away in a few 
hours...  But I don't know of any controlled tests of spark brightness vs 
current and time over say a 5cm spark...

Cheers,

        Terry



> Dave