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Re: Tesla coil formulas



Original poster: Terry Fritz <vardin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Bart,

I was going to put the cone formula in but I got worried from this post:

http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/2001/January/msg00418.html

It sounded like there was some question as to if the formula was valid. Has you tested it against Paul or Mark's programs?? If so, then I will put it in. If not, then maybe it needs to be checked? I added it anyway....

I am trying to hit the basic, often used, equations that one really "needs". It won't have toroid-plat-sphere capacitance or Medhurst stuff since that really needs the computer programs now that we have good programs to figure it out right... I have not used those since the E-Tesla days...

I will put in surge impedance. "I" have never used it for much but others like it ;-))

I think my PFC is the same as your's but it is just rearranged a little to make it more straightforward with NST numbers.

Gerry also sent me a bunch of ideas and corrections ;-)) I fixed the errors and added what I thought would be best. This is "just the basics" so I did not add much more. Of course, every single equation has a long long story behind it...

The chart and some things (like MMC values) might note match exactly. The chart values are from programs that are a tiny bit better than the equations. I'll just make another post...

The latest version (only 116kB and 8 pages ;-)) is here:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/FormulasForTeslaCoils-200.pdf

The original file is here that can be converted to webpages or just about any other type of document known:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/FormulasForTeslaCoils-200.odt

It is an OpenOffice 2.0 file

http://www.openoffice.org

I am not sure it is ready to go yet though.... I used Matt's pictures and I am waiting to here back from him if that is ok... The final version will be "open source, public domain, No copyright, copy-steal-and-plagerize as you wish" so anyone can use it on their sites too.

The latest version is looking pretty good. Hopefully, I didn't mess anything up too bad at this point :o)))

Cheers,

        Terry

At 10:42 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote:
Hi Terry,

Excellent! Glad to see you doing this. Matt's page was certainly a valuable resource, especially for new coilers. Programs are nice, but I think it is important to do math on paper now and then. It keeps the senses sharp for engineers and is overall helpful for new coilers.

For the primary inductance you list well known equations for helical and flat spirals. The conical equation is not listed. Probably best, because the classical conical equation was never true to measurement. I did work out a modification to this equation prior to Paul's ability to solve conical inductance's, and it fares pretty well with all possibilities (flat, cone, and helical).

The equation used was L = sqrt((L1*Sin(X1))^2 + (L2*cos(X2))^2)

L1 = ((W^2) * (N^2)) / ((9*W) + (10*h))
L2 = ((W^2) * (N^2)) / ((8*W) + (11*w))
X1 = COS(RADIANS(angle))
X2 = SIN(RADIANS(angle))
N = turns
Z = N * (WireD + Spacing)
h = Z * SIN(RADIANS(angle))
w = Z * COS(RADIANS(angle))
R = Inner Diam. / 2
W = R + (w / 2)

Input data is then: Angle, Inner Diameter, Turns, Wire Diameter, Spacing (edge-edge). There is certainly Bart-ism here, but it did serve well in early programs for all primary coils. This may be something you want to add (or not). Thought I'd throw it out there.

You have the basic info which is great! There are obviously many equations for each topic (energy, inductance, etc..). I'm not sure if you want to include the others or not, that's up to you.

Something else which is often thought about but not calc'd is primary surge impedance. Surge Impedance = sqrt(Lp/Cp) = the higher, the better (higher = lower gap losses).

For PFC, John Cortures, I use:
(KVA*10^9)/(2*pi*F*Vin^2)
But, all PFC calc's are really ballpark. Always best is trial and error. "Equation is a starting point".
Short commentary would be meaningful for new coilers.

For BPS-Power (energy), BPS = .5 * Cp * eVp^2
Where
eVp = Vp*(1-e^(-t/zc)
e = 2.7182818
-t = 1/bps*1000
zc = transformer Z*Cp
This equation pulls in charge time, thus a more accurate representation of voltage at the cap. eVp is certainly important here. The only other way is measurement (which is always best).

Well, I realize the basics are really what is important. I commend you for this write up. I think this type of info is great for new coilers and even the old timers who have become complacent with programs. Man, you could really fill this page with all kinds of stuff, but I'm not sure that is a good idea.

Bart


Tesla list wrote:

Original poster: Terry Fritz <vardin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi All,

I used Matt Behrand's Tesla coil formula page a lot. It kept getting shutdown for too many hits and now it seems gone permanently :-((

http://home.earthlink.net/~electronxlc/formulas.html

So, I guess I will have to make one myself :-))

Here is what I have so far:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/FormulasForTeslaCoils-100.pdf

I can make it into a web page when it gets more polished. I just threw it together tonight mostly from memory, so beware it might be all wrong at this point %:o))

If anyone has any suggestions or things they want added just let me know. I realize that I might be the last person on Earth who still figures it all out by hand ;-)))

Cheers,

    Terry

Terry Fritz <vardin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>