RE: New Inductance Formula

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>


--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "David Thomson by way of Terry
> Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <dave-at-volantis-dot-org>
> 
> Hi Harvey,
> 
> >To see why the impedance is not constant we then
> merely go to the
> definition of X(L)= 2 (pi)*f *L.
> >So we se that 2 pi L is constant, but the reactance
> X(L) will then be
> proportional to f, the imposed frequency.
> 
> I'm missing something.  
So am I. I see others (Paul N) having a L(dc) and
L(es),equivalent series? but dont understand how or
why the inductance changes, or whether it changes at
resonance ect. I am only saying that the inductance is
or should be the same value for all the parameters
involved.(generally constant) I actually hope I might
be wrong here so then I may have learned something,
but until that is clarified I see inductance as
Generally being constant, and if there is variations
of over a couple percent due to weather ect, I would
hope someone can clear that up. I wish someone could
easily explain how an inductance is supposed to change
when used in resonance, if that is what is being said
by others. The only thing I am saying by classifying
it as constant is that for example 11 mh is 11 mh for
all conditions whether you input 60 hz or 480 hz. The
impedance however is not (constant) it has one ohmic
value for 60 hz but one 8 times higher at 480 hz, so
the impedance varies proportionally with the imposed
frequency. This is also why I cannot understand the
meaning of incorporating impedance into an inductance
equation, since it is dependent on the frequency.
How does the formula show
> that inductance is
> constant?  As far as I know inductance is not a
> characteristic of matter or
> energy, but matter and energy are influenced by
> inductance.  A coil's
> inductance does change from day to day and I believe
> someone on this list
> was going to run a test to check into this?  I know
> my coils change
> inductance over time.
> 
> >Both inductance and capacitance were also expressed
> in terms of length in
> Teslas day, where the CSN always shows inductance
> recorded in cm, where the
> conversion factor is 10^9 cm = 1 henry.
Of course the inductance units themselves are not
length units, but it was a matter of convenience made
in calculations to express them that way. This subject
does get somewhat confusing. However if one reads CSN
one will have to come to terms with the way that
inductance is expressed as CM in that book, and we
only need to know the 10^9 conversion factor to make
this decipherable to us as actual units expressed in
henries. 
> Tesla et al were using the cgs system of units.  It
> doesn't work for the SI
> system.  And in the MKS system, which I am using,
> the Wheeler equation
> results in meters.  But in the MKS system, meters
> does not equal henries.
> Length is merely a distance.
> 
> >See H LTranstrom/Turn of the century definitions
> for cm's of L and C
> quantities
> 
> That is a very good discourse on cgs.  Thanks.
> http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/message/14
> 
> I'll have to study it a while to fully understand
> how inductance can be
> expressed as length.  There must be a one sentence
> definition of inductance
> in terms of length somewhere?  
No because strictly speaking in terms of units it is
NOT expressed purely as a length. One must first
decipher how Transtron applies absolute unit values to
make any sense of what he is saying for his inductance
explanation. For him the absolute unit of amperage is
10 amps I believe, and any time he refers to unity he
is speaking in terms of absolute units. At the
beginning of his book he makes the following
statement;
The absolute unit of current is 10 amperes since it
will produce a unit magnetic field of phi = 12.56
lines around a conductor for every cm of its length.
This 12.56 value is 4 (pi)* radius (squared)= the
surface of a sphere, as the distance of one cm in the
unit magnet pole the surface would contain 4 (pi) * 1
^2 or 12.56 sq cm, and as each of these squares
contain one line of force, the sum of all the squares
would be 12.56 lines of force. He goes on to say;  
Now the force in dynes at one cm distance is unity in
unit magnet pole, but if the density is doubled, the
force in dynes is also doubled.
Soo.. some of these definitions indeed seem very
obscure, but that is what they taught back then so it
must have some knid of basis. HDN
As for expressing
> capacitance and inductance
> in terms of length, to do so is incomplete in
> itself.  In order to express
> inductance as cm there must be a certain amount of
> other information present
> to gather the inductance.  For example, the henry is
> equal to kg*m^2/coul^2.
> Here we know that inductance is a function of mass,
> area, and distributed
> charge.  For inductance to be expressed as length
> there needs to be other
> information present to know a length with reference
> to what.
I completely agree, however what is being dealt with
here is only the way the old folks did things, and
trying to decipher why it was done like that. 
> Also, since capacitance and inductance are both
> expressed as cm, how does
> one know whether the result of an equation is
> inductance, capacitance, or
> length?  Or are they all the same?
> 
> Dave
Perhaps one should use Wheelers formula to determine
the inductance of a single wind, where that formula
then becomes redundant, and we must use some of the
old definitions to find the answer, where as
previously noted that answer would be the flux in the
loop if unit amperage were contained in the loop. HDN 
> 
> 


=====
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