Re: flat coil (magic squarich)?

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>


--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "Barton B. Anderson by way of Terry
> Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <tesla123-at-pacbell-dot-net>
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Tesla list wrote:
> 
> > Original poster: "Chris Swinson by way of Terry
> Fritz
> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <exxos-at-cps-games.co.uk>
> >
> > I did do some coil calcs with tesla coil program,
> and indeed if you wound a
> > coil 400" in dia and 3" high with the same length
> of wire then you can gain
> > a very high Cself.
> 
> Actually, the other direction will gain a high Cself
> (400" height  and 3"
> dia. [high hd]).
> 
> >  Its interesting that there can be so many
> possible
> > combinations for L and  C  with the same length of
> wire. I wish I could try
> > such a high Cself coil, Would probably have to use
> the outside of the house
> > for a form that large though :)
> 
> If you think about cap construction (number of
> plates, surface area,
> insulation thickness), all that
> changes with these different geometry's which is why
> you get such a high
> Cself. It would be fun to do
> it just for giggles, but it's just physically
> impractical. 

> which you might find
> interesting is how low Fres goes. Part of the
> "impracticality" is the
> primary circuit. 
An easy comment can be made here: if we ascertain the
best wind structure to permit this conjecture you will
also have to admit the high estimate of needed
capacity will also be reduced, because a significant
amount of capacity will be contained internally in the
primary itself. It can be demonstrated that a foil
winded Spiral plate primary with intervening
dielectric will have  a reduced resonant frequency
compared to its (NATURAL RESONANT FREQ), but the
complication involved with tesla coils is that every
primary ever used has a capacity to be combined with
that L value to negotiate the value for the secondary
resonance. If the primary itself contains a
significant amount of internal capacitance, it seems
possible that such a primary structure could be
operated to deliver the same or lesser effects that
the present primaries would deliver. To think further
on this aspect it might be proposed to so limit the
primaries natural resonant frequency to such an extent
that it still has an appreciable inductance itself,
but yet  such a massive internal capacitance to be
able to produce an arc gap with the very smallest
capacity, wher here the implication is made that very
large capacities would be required.

To better illustrate the idea of unusual primary
formations containing massive internal capacitance we
need only take the observations made with 1 planar
dimension, and apply them to two  dimensions., of
three dimensional space. With a flat shaped wire
making a  spiral primary, layers being made show this
reduction of that resonant frequency are scope
demonstratable by imposing rf bursts, or methods of
neon discharge and then to record the scope registered
frequency. We can see that the same length of
(layered) spirals will record different resonant
frequencies depending on how much internal capacity is
added to the spirals. The first methods to show those
differences are rather primitive in that by adding
layers of those vertically structured spirals, another
relationship of voltage between winds is made, where
the former (internal capacity)is made laterally, the
later is made vertically, and the voltage between
winds becomes obvious as a significant factor in
reducing the recorded frequencies from layers of
spirals because an addional option can be brought into
play, as to how the second layer will be wired. It can
be wired to still deliver an equivalent inductance,AND
ALSO deliver more internal capacity without making any
tradeoff. The only requirement for inductance is the
identical radial movement of current. It does not
matter whether that radial (clockwise or
otherwise)movement of current is made with a spiral
moving from the outside in laterally or the inside out
laterally, but it is those combinations of electrical
movements combined in layers that will add an
additional consideration of relative voltage between
winds on the layers themselves. That is the method to
show differences  between resonant frequencies of
return layer spirals vs bifilar spirals that are only
shown by the thin edges of each spiral interacting
between layers.

If instead those spirals resembled square conductors
with the same surface area between winds as layers the
effect would be more pronounced.

If even further in comprehension, we understood the
mathemathical requiremnt for procurring the greatest
possible voltage difference between square made winds
that can be made in 2 dimensions, we arrive at the
astounding fact that the arrangement is actually is
called a magic square, and that every winding number
arrayed in the square will add to the same total
number  when added vertically, horizontally, and if
needed  even diagonally. It may surprise some that the
diagonal may not be needed and a simple jail house
excersize can be added from there.

It is possible, but hardly readily found, (by logic)
that given a chess board of 64 squares, that could
also represent the 64 winds of a 2/d tesla primary:
that when the position change of the next winding
occurs on the wind after completing one turn, it only
has to move like a chess knight to get to the next
position,  to make the position for the next wind.
This can be played out on a chess board, but one will
usually find you are cut off at the pass, because your
series of movements has dictated you can move no more
to find the unoccupied squares as completion of that
64 square movement. That completion of movement will
be a convenient magic square that satisfies the
horizontal and vertical magic square requirement, but
not the diagonal requirement. Forsaking the hexagonal
winder, the first requirement seems to be a good
candidate.

But for the simplest of considerations we can use the
first magic square of  9. This will be three layers of
three.  9 square pieces in 9 separate sections can
have the routings made in 9 junctions. The squares can
be separated by polyethylene, the inductance measured,
and also the deviance  of necessary capacity made by
additional internal capacity made on  such a primary. 
That sounds like a  2 *81 piece construction. I bought
one of these first aluminum tubing squares myself, and
it only needs the proper size copper tubings to route
each of the succesive winds together by shoving the
tubing inside the square interior, through those 9
junctions to be made. Only one move is made at each
junction, the rest are identical, so actually 81
pieces of tubing are necessary for junction
completions.
Sincerely HDN

You would end up
> requiring a tank cap around 1000uF for dual-tuned
> resonance. Can you
> imagine what it would take to
> charge such an enormous hv cap.
> 
> Take care,
> Bart
> 
> 
> 


=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/