Re: getting three phase power

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>

> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:21:41 -0700 "Tesla list"
> <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> writes:
> > Original poster: "Eric Davidson by way of Terry
> Fritz 
> > <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <edavidson-at-icva.gov>
> > 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Can anyone give me ONE good reason why you would
> need/want to power 
> > a Tesla
> > coil with 3-phase?? .... To Operate three of them
simultaneously using only a single arc gap...
Possibly to experiment with things John Huthchison has
done, or just to do things that dont seem to have been
done. Since three phase uses the other phases for the
return current wire when everything is balanced that
means a single  wye gap can power three coils. It also
has ramifcations for science fiction thinking, such as
allowing an entire ship on water to be part of the 3
phase top capacitive load, or a vehicle of your own
design. A lot of unexplored territory out there. Here
are some references that might be just speculation, or
maybe just science fiction tesla coils?

In the
basic design of a 3 phase tesla coil system,(again I
state that this also may never have yet been done
experimentally) we can consider the adaptation of the
Oudin coil, or high frequency autotransformer for our
speculation of adaptation of high frequency
transformers to 3 phase. As not quite the same
analogy(it takes too long to explain that here,but the
delta quantites are series resonances, employing a
trisectional arc gap, as the BRS analogy for a firing
primary system, that can theoretically eliminated by
opening the gap once firing starts, see [FG]: Ring of
Fire/ 3 phase tesla primary Schematic,
http://www.escribe-dot-com/science/freenrg/m9505.html

,breif extraction follows;
To understand the interior current paths we can first
analyse it when the bottom  delta series resonance is
zero current. This also makes its midpoint path zero
current, so at the triple arc gap only the other two
phases have interphasal arcing. These phases at that
moment in time have a positive 120 degree voltage, and
a negative 240 degree voltage. When this is analysed
in context with delta phasing, we see that the current
in each series resonant circuit is in opposite
directions, providing opposite resonant rises of
voltage enabling this arcing to occur at their
relative midpoints on the triple arc gap. Thus
transposed schematically the remaining phases when one
phase is zero represents a BRS with respect to their
relative 180 phasing of currents, thus making the
triple arc gap method analogous to a rotating BRS, by
virtue of phasing rotation. HDN

Now As I was trying to make this point the delta
components are the three tesla primaries,although that
definition is somewhat obscured by the 3 phase
adaptation made for a triple arc gap, as the 3 phase
BRS method for primary arcing, which is totally
different from the conventional primary firing methods
for tesla coils. The three secondaries are then the 3
wye components,[these WYE components are line tied as
a direct connection to the delta series resonances
midpoints, or the wire between L and C, making it more
a OUDIN 3 phase autotransformer bipolar design rather
than a simple 3 phase tesla coil design. Because the
secondary is not isolated from the primary as in an
ordinary tesla coil design,  this direct connection
makes those electrical arcs are far more dangerous as
an electrocution possibility.]
  
The typical tesla coilers analogy
would be to put appropriately sized globes on top of
each wye secondary as determined by the amount of
polar
capacity needed to resonate with that secondary, as
done in resonant formulas. This would then be the
first  recorded 3 phase ring of fire to my knowledge,
which may be wrong but is declared, producing a
triangular discharge between those terminals as a
functioning 3 phase bipolar high frequency
autotransformer.

This is all good and fine, but that in itself is not
the true analogy of the BRS principle applied to this
secondary discharge. When we understand the true
analogy we begin to understand how an entire ship
could be electrified with continual high frequency
impulses, and possibly how to produce this high
frequency rotating standing wave you seem to indicate
may have electrogravitic characteristics. In my device
the components are huge because I am attempting to
make it resonate at a so called resonant frequency of
water, around 31,250 hz. For the secondaries needed
capacity a value of 165 pf is needed. This is a fairly
huge surface area if a polar capacity were desired,
but perhaps the  external metal areas of your flying
saucer design could be put in sections for each phase
to serve this purpose of creating the high voltage,
high frequency standing wave rotating about the ship.
But in this scenario, it is more important to observe
what will be going on INSIDE the ship. To show this
adaptation we need to totally dismiss the above
scenario. Instead of using 165 pf of terminal polar
capacity, we instead use 165 pf of a conventional
double plate air capacity. The three 165 pf dual
plated air capacities are also joined together in wye
from the center as a common connection, or ship
ground. Now that is nothing new, only another
adaptation of the ring of fire. If the air gap of the
165 pf is bridged by arcing, I dont think the
occupants of the ship would find this to be a pleasant
sensation! This is not the correct BRS 3 phase analogy
for secondary arcing. Imagine now that the three inner
common capacitor plates are drawn together now as a
triangular three dimensional piece. On the outside of
this triangle are the other plates with the air gap
between them on this triple air gap model. In this
design provided that the distance between the outside
edges of these outside 3 plates is less than twice the
distance of each central arc gap, the discharge itself
will then arc across the outside plates, never arcing
to the inside, or never producing a electrical
discharge made to this newly created ground potential.
In this way the ship is then only capacitively coupled
to the high frequency discharges, but it is
continually being subjected to a high frequency
vibration from two of the phases in time. This is the
correct 3 phase BRS analogy for secondaries, in that
the arc is MADE BETWEEN 2 SERIES RESONANCES AT THE WYE
MIDPOINTS, instead of across one of the L or C
components. When we allow arcing across a component,
or the typical air capacity C value, that arcing
itself may diminish the resonance, because the arc
then appears as a short to that component, and the two
LC resonant quantities now appear more as a single non
resonant L value when the C quantity is bridged by
arcing. All this tends to quickly extinguish the arc,
and gives a longer recharge time for re-arcing to
occur. A BRS discharge never shorts the components
being used for the resonance, rather the arcing is
internal to the schematic, instead of the conventional
method of making the arc external to the components,
thus appearing as a short across those components.

I am now better convinced to allow only a triangular
piece, and to eliminate the globes as shown
schematically at
http://msnhomepages.talkcity-dot-com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/trin3.html
 As one can schematically see, the triangular form
allows arcing BETWEEN phases, not from topload to
topload, but from the midsection of each secondary
resonance, before the topload exercized as the
capacity between secondaries. This allows for an
arcing that does not circumvent the resonance, as the
LC secondary values still exist on either side of the
arcing. I used bad componenets in my first try, the
secondaries were not single layered, having a massive
internal capacitance, Thus upon arcing, provided the
arcing does not go to the inner triangle, those air
capcities remain intact, not being shorted by the
arcing.   Here is a high frequency 3 phase reference
from another posting list...
http://www.escribe-dot-com/science/freenrg/m9901.html
This reminds me of a story that an engineer working at
NASA Ames (for a
contractor of NASA) once told me yeas ago.

He wondered what would happen if an electric field
were rotated such that
the tangential velocity came close to or even tried to
exceed the speed
of light.  Imagine an electrostatic dipole rotating so
that its ends
reach speeds near C.

He set up a cylindrical Faraday shield made of screen
in which was placed
3 dipole antennas tuned to the 10 meter
amateur band  (29 Mhz).   Using a coax cable phasing
harness he split the
output from a 100 Watt transmitter (a Heathkit DX-100,
tube type
transmitter of late 50's/early 60's vintage) so that
they fed the three
dipoles with  29 Mhz three phase power.    In so doing
he created a
rotating electric field inside the cylinder.

The interesting thing was that he said that small
objects like rubber
erasers would sometime levitate inside the chamber
when the transmitter
was running.  Not surprisingly, the rubber erasers
(and other objects)
would also get hot.

Unfortunately this story was told to me over 20 years
ago and I have lost
track of the gentleman.

He told me the story in a matter of fact manner, he
never retracted the
story or made it a laughing matter as if it were a
joke.  He seemed like
a serious engineer.  He worked for a contractor
(Nelson/Johnson
Engineering, as I recall)  that was designing
equipment for experiments
to be taken up by the space shuttle.  Although I
considered his story
interesting, if somewhat dubious, I did not gasp the
significance of what
he told me until years later when I heard of the
"Hutchison Effect" where
object are levitated and also modified in various ways
by the effects of
some Tesla coils operating along with Van-de-Graphs
and perhaps radio
transmitters operated by an inventor named John
Hutchison in BC Canada in
the late 1980's.

see:
http://www.geocities-dot-com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEffect1.html


I have met people who were first hand witnesses (in
addition to John
himself) of the "Hutchison Effect" and I have seen
videos taken by a TV
news crew and others.  It is a real phenomena, it is
not a joke or a
trick, although some think it might be a poltergeist
or psychokinesis.  
Hutchison does not think this though, I have asked
him, he believes it is
a physical effect.  Unfortunately his haphazard
methods have not produced
good repeatable data for replication by others.  It is
hit-and-miss
affair.   Not done under rigorous scientific
conditions.


Perhaps 3-phase Tesla coils might produce a really odd
effects.   Maybe
that what the three balls are that you see under some
pictures of
supposed UFO's.

And finally to end this repetitive post here is a
reposting to this thread I first decided not to send,
since it seems a little off topic containing much
guesswork..
> > Can anyone give me ONE good reason why you would
> need/want to power a Tesla
> > coil with 3-phase?? 
Maybe just for experimental purposes. People like John
Hutchison of Vancouver BC claimed to produced bizaare
effects by interfering 3 Hf processes interacting in
space,  by 120 degree phasing for each input. There is
also the Philadelphia Experiment scenario as a "what
if" scenario, something fun to try just to see what
could happen. In that scenario you could design a
craft(or flying saucer if you will) where the high
voltage discharge is circumvented around the craft
employing many phased outputs.  As a three phase
resonant application, circuits can be designed so that
while the outer delta circuits are series resonant,
connections between the phases, {or a triple wye arc
gap taken from the centers of all 3 series
resonances,}  can be made to form one arc gap for all
three tesla coils. So there are a lot of expensive
possibilities of making 3 tesla coils and using 3
phase power as an input. However I agree with everyone
else: the power companies cost is prohibitive. But it
isnt really that cost prohibitive to make your own 3
phase. I recently converted an automobile alternator
by simply taking out the diodes. The nice thing about
making your own 3 phase is that you are no longer
reliant on 60 hz as the input frequency. The most
convenient conventional available machinery  is in the
form of AC modified automotive alternators that will
normally deliver much higher frequencies. An equal
size pulley ratio delivered 188 hz for me as shown on
http://msnhomepages.talkcity-dot-com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/trinity.html
 A previously built 6 phase system built from bus
alternators delivers 360 hz. The disadvantage of a
higher input frequency is the presumed higher losses
present in a ferromagnetic transformer. So I would
suppose that 360 hz will still work in a conventional
step up 3 phase transformer. However as I have shown
on that and the following page, a voltage rise
directly from air core resonance can be made, in that
case suffiecient to light small neons as a delta load
between the phases.

     For the average enthusiast thinking about
avoiding the large costs of making air core resonant
rise of voltage, I would beleive that the best option
would be to design a bipolar tesla coil system
utilysing only two of the three phases, and utilysing
the third phase for rectified rerouting to the field
for possible (self)voltage  field regulation, or it is
also possible the third circuit might be left intact,
as a precussor condition for all the phases being
series resonant. Why are two 120 degree phased high
voltage potentials better than 3? The problem is shown
in the lighting of florescents from stage 1 of the
resonance,and the lighting of neons from stage 2. 

     If two neon bulbs are put in parallel to an NST
output, one will light, and the other will not. Once a
preferred  ionized path is made, the other path is
ignored. The same kind of problem exists between the
ionized potentials given three discharge paths as
interphasal current paths from a 3 phase delta load
extraction of three delta series resonances. One
disharge path gives the best internal amperage. The
next discharge path if not made on turn on can be made
by simply opening and closing that circuit. This
reduces the internal amperage formerly made from one
single bulb. But opening and closing the third
discharge path to produce all 3 discharges is not
easily possible. When it does occur the amperages on
all three branches appear again reduced. By these
observations it is concluded that if three tesla coil
secondaries from three 120 degree phasings were in
action, we might expect arcing between 1 or 2
terminals to be common , but not 3. Thus the third
coil system might be construed to be redundant: and
the use of that phases output from the alternator put
to other uses. In fact the standard process of
extracting a single AC signal from the alternator is
to combine two in series, where the addition of two
120  degree phases in series is itself a phase of 40%
more voltage. The addition of the 3 phase in series
produces no effect since that is voltage cancellation
in all times of the 360 degree cycle.

     So breifly (in my suggested method) power factor
correction must also be considered. The crux of the
biscuit here is that this circuit comsumes maximum
amperage and voltage rise on open condition, and tank
condition of maximum impedance on closed condition.
Using two secondaries for the two tesla coils, it then
becomes logical to allow them to be directly connected
to the primaries, as in the bipolar autotransformer
example.  In any case their bases, instead of being
connected to ground are connected in loop as two
arcings in series in the total circuit. Essentially we
then also have two paths of arcing available in
parallel. The first path is made by making a primary
arc gap between the two delta connected primaries.
Those primary LC circuits are normally tuned to their
respective secondaries resonances. If both of these
quantities are put in series,they will still resonate
at the same frequency. By making an interphasal arc
gap, this is taking something that formerly would
require a single arc gap for each single  phased tesla
coil and combining them in one. Both the input and
output terminals of the 2 NST's have a common
connection, as in a center tap transformer. Thus all
three outputs of the alternator are used, but the
predominant interior pathways are used for only two
phases. So I think in general the use of three phase
power for tesla coiling offers one distint difference.
Since the return wire becomes the path used by another
phase, and the fourth return wire is unnecessary if
the phases are balanced, then it should be possible to
make three phases each sharing a common arc gap, or
two as seen whichever is more practical.

Sincerely HDN



=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost-dot-com/teslafy/

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