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Re: info wanted

Tesla List wrote:
> Original Poster: "Sam Barros" <sambarros-at-hotmail-dot-com>
> >Original Poster: "Marc Boiy" <ON1DCV-at-mail.dma.be>
> >I'm new to this server and "tesla" and found the information on the
> >internet so beautiful that I wanna build a tesla transformer myself.
>  I'm from Holland so I guess I should tell you something about building
> Tesla Coils in Europe:
>  Well, first, when you see those great posts by our American fellows
> saying "Hey, I got this and that for free", or "I got ten pounds of wire
> for 3 dollars" and such, well, FORGET IT!!!

Not really. Perhaps in Holland near you, but not everywhere in
Europe. In Finland (where I live), it is possible to acquire
neons (max 8kV), MOTs, OBITs, polepigs etc. at reasonable
cost. I paid 500FIM (=about 80usd) for my pig. Then used LARGE
variacs are readily available as old x-ray equipment is dumped 
from hospitals (scrap value of iron) etc.. You just need to be 
CREATIVE to figure out all the places that sell/dump/give pieces 
of equipment suitable for 'coiling.. 

>  I paid 50 dollars for 680 meters of 22AWG (0.60mm) wire for my
> secondary. 30 meters of 0.8mmm thick copper tubing (for the primary)

The scrap (selling) value of copper is 20FIM/kg from junk yards. That
is about 20FIM = 4usd/kg.. I have acquired various spools of perfectly
good magnet-wire for that scrap value - or less.

> cost me 80Dollars. My Secondary coil form (PVC pipe 20cm diameter, 70cm
> high) cost about 25 dollars, and I was lucky they just had it laying
> around, because, strictly speaking I would have to buy 5meters minimum.

Call around to companies using the stuff.. 

> The acrylic endings cost another 20. Varnish cost me over 100 dollars in
> total (Ok, I used a lot, and I had epoxy, enamel, polyurethane and
> urethane).

Wow. One can get 5 liters of Vac43 high-voltage lacquor for 250fim from
many companies (250fim = about 50usd).. And that is pretty much the
BEST thing there is for HV coatings. 

Why do you wish to use acrylic end-caps?? Use PVC (cheap, can get
transparent pvc) and glue it with normal sever-pipe-solvent-glue.
Vent the fumes from inside the secondary by drilling a little hole
to the ground-side of it. 

>  The toroid cost about 80 dollars (13cm rubber tubing, about 1m50 long,
> covered with aluminium tape).

Industrial high-diameters hoses/tubes are VERY expensive. That is
because 
they are specsed to do MUCH more than just be under Al-tape to form a
toroid 
- like be heat-, corrosion-resistant etc.. So the real trick is to
figure 
out a suitable tube/what-ever that is cheap (= not designed for any
special
usage) - like that Al "bellow"airduct.. I found some centrifuge shields
that 
were perfect - some of 'em Al, some stainless steel - for scrap value
of the metal from junk yard.

>  In total, My Tesla Coil (a medium model) cost me over 400Dollars. And I
> still have capacitors, spark gap, transformer, chokes, filters, and
> other things on the power supply to get it working. So the final cost,
> without the transformer, will be well over 500Dollars.

It is ALWAYS a compromise between time and money.. One just needs to 
decide whether one has more money or time to spend. 

>  Now, onto the transformer: You have a go at getting Neons in Holland
> (or most other European countries for that matter). You'll find out that
> for some pathetically stupid reason they are ALL power limited to
> 400Watts. AND, as if that wasn't enough, you can only get them new (old
> ones are sent to the factory). A new transformer will cost about
> 200dollars. Maybe more.

You can get them as used as well. Call to local neon-sign constructing
companies - just explain WHY you need 'em and take some tools with you
as
you will have to take apart old signs to get the used transformers.

The reason for little neons is that they HAVE TO be inside the signs -
this
is because of laws. I think the issue is that IF you had the 15kV
transformer inside and then a HV-cable going to the sign with 15kV 
(like in US), you would need to get special permits and even name a
"responsible user" for the sign etc. etc.. This would cost a LOT more
and be a real PITA. It IS a real wonder they let people use TVs with 
20+ kV inside without special training & permits.. :)

>  In case you are curious, a microwave oven transformer (which, by the
> way doesn't work good for a Tesla Coil) costs 150Dollars new. Again
> getting it old is impossible because the broken ovens have their parts
> reused (cheap people!).

Oh well - new MOTs cost 120FIM each here.. That's about 25usd each..
I have some used ones from old microwaveovens - they are readily
available
and the transformer is ALWAYS ok.. In fact, one can get a NEW mv-oven 
for less than 150usd here.. :) And used ones for less than 20usd..

MOTs do work for TCs - one just needs either to use voltage
multiplier or several MOTs. 

>  Any other transformer you might hear off is unavailable here. Now, I

Rubbish. I have acquired a (single-phase) pig from a power company.
It was a bit of work to find one as everyone had just 16kW three-phase
pigs available to sell, and at the time I had only single-phase
variac etc.. Since then I have acquired one 15kV 5kW electrostatic
air-purifier transformer (dry one, no oil!) as well. Paid 300fim
for it - about 60usd..

Nowadays I would definitely buy a 3-phase pig if I couldn't get
a dry HV-transformer.

> have asked about 10 times but NO-ONE on this list will send me a
> transformer. Whatever selfish reasons they might have for it...

Sorry, I have not noticed. If you are prepared for the horrendous
postage of sending iron from Finland to Holland, I can help you. 
Just let me know.. I have variacs (1 and 3 phase), neons, MOTs etc..

>  I am sorry if this doesn't really sound positive to you, but
> unfortunately, Europe is not the place to be if you want to build a
> Coil.

Europe is as good as any place for 'coiling. One just needs to be 
creative to find the sources for parts. I'm certain the same applies 
in the US as well - you need to do a bit searching to find the places 
where you can get things cheaply.

> I have tried and now I find myself with this over a meter high,
> beautiful 500+dollars piece of useless equipment. Kind of makes you
> wonder why I built it in the first place… Well, I built it because I
> need it! I am not waiting over 500Dollars just to sit down and watch
> sparks fly until the neighbour call the police and I get arrested for
> something that is illegal here. I seriously need this Coil for a serious
> project of mine. There is a lot of money at stake, but nevertheless I
> can’t get what I need:-( And, to make matters worst, I am just about out
> of money.

You certainly sound desperate.. >:(

IMHO, pretty much everything else but the caps are possible to find. 
Even the pulse HV-caps are possible to find - one person here in 
Finland acquired new Maxwell caps from laser-repair company with 
reasonable cost. Last week, on tuesday, when I visited a junk yard
in Tampere, I found couple of 110V 5A Powerstat variacs - paid junkvalue 
of iron for them (2FIM/kg).. 

  Kristian Ukkonen.