Re: transformers

From: 	Mad Coiler[SMTP:tesla_coiler-at-hotmail-dot-com]
Sent: 	Friday, August 29, 1997 11:33 AM
To: 	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
Subject: 	Re: transformers

>From: 	Jim Fosse[SMTP:jim.fosse-at-bjt-dot-net]
>Reply To: 	jim.fosse-at-bjt-dot-net
>Sent: 	Thursday, August 28, 1997 9:16 PM
>To: 	Tesla List
>Subject: 	Re: transformers
>>From: 	Mad Coiler[SMTP:tesla_coiler-at-hotmail-dot-com]
>>Sent: 	Thursday, August 28, 1997 11:57 AM
>>To: 	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
>>Subject: 	Re: transformers
>>  Well, I have never tried hooking different voltages in parallel 
>>becuase I have gone by the following:
>>  If you hook 2 xformers together directly in parallel that have 
>>differing voltages then you have just made a complete circuit. 
>>Perhaps ASCII could help
>>            ~1 ohm
>>       +    1000V    -
>>       ---~-~-~-~-~---
>>       |             |
>>       |             |
>>    +  0             0  +
>>       0             0
>> 9000V 0             0 7000V
>>       0             0
>>    -  0             0  -
>>       |             |
>>     A |             |
>>       ---~-~-~-~-~---
>>       -    1000v    +
>>           ~1 ohm
>	This would be valid IF the transformers acted as voltage
>source. They do not! Remember, the arc they are designed to run has an
>impedance of ~5 - ~400 ohms. The have to be limited or they would draw
>an enormous amount of current based on V/I.  So take you schematic
>above and substitute either a Thevanin (sp?) or Norton equivalent for
>both transformers and run Kirkoff's rule again. (the sum of currents
>into a node must equal 0 and the sum of voltages around a loop must
>equal 0.)
>>I hope you can make sense of this and see that if you start at point A 
>>and go CCW to the right, add up all the volatges across the wires and 
>>other neon that it equals the 9000V neon.
>>These laws are what they teach us in college and they say for example 
>>that KVL MUST ALWAYS be valid, it's impossible to defy KVL. 
>Except, when you have an invalid model. If the results of your
>calculations seem impossible, ALLWAYS suspect your model!
>	Regards,
>	jim

Jim, thats a very intersesting point. I had thought about the neon's 
current limiting abilities as I was writing but wasn't sure how that 
effected them. I am intersted in hearing what actualy happens - anyone? 
You say above that my model won't work because I am using ideal voltages 
sources, and I know they are not! But they aren't really current sources 
either, are they? I mean they don't adjust there output voltage to 
supply current. The only other value is the resistance (impedance?). 
Does this somehow change? Is there some sort of 'sensing coil' that can 
adjust total inductance? And, Jim, I know that you check your model when 
you get strange results, but I am only trying to prove that hooking the 
transformers together isn't the best way to go, wich my 'model' although 
not ideal, does - unless there are coilers that have proved that it can 
be done? But, I am curious and will try and compute Norton or thevenin 
as you proposed and see what they say about the whole thing.

Nortonizing wires and thevenizing toroids (?!?) in Ohio,
Mad Coiler 

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