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sign xformer parameters for a particular Tesla coil?
Subject: How do you determine neon sign xformer parameters for a
particular Tesla coil?
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:58:10 -0400
From: "Owen Lawrence" <owen-at-iosphere-dot-net>
To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
(I already tried to send this message to the list and got no feedback or
return copy, so I'm trying again. My apologies if I'm the only one that
didn't see it. - Owen -)
> You might try a neon sign transformer instead of the 2N3055 ocsillator
> driving a flyback xmfr. This setup will only produce 1-2 ma of drive
> current. Usually you need around 30-60 ma of drive at 12 Kv which
Thanks for your response. What assumptions are being made to arrive at
these specs ("need 30-60ma at 12KV")? I intend to build a small (but
hopefully effective) coil to begin with. If I know ahead of time I only
have 1-2ma to work with, I should be able to design around that.
I have found several neon sign companies in the yellow pages,
some within
walking distance of where it work. I can't believe I never noticed them
before. I'll be scavenging for transformers this week.
If I'm offered any that don't work should I take them? Can someone
point
me to some hints/instructions on how to repair/recondition old neon sign
transformers? Wish me luck!
> A good suggestion not to use a pole pig until you have built a few
> smaller
> units first. Pole xmfrs are extremely dangerous and will fry you in an
> instant.
I intend to stay very far away from them until I know what I'm doing.
At
this point I consider neon sign transformers very dangerous. I'm just
curious how you folks go about procuring one of these bigger ones. If I
don't know what they're worth I won't know if I stumble across a good
buy
and should grab it for one of you, if not for myself :)
I called a motor shop yesterday for a price on wire. I was told
it's
$16(Cdn)/lb, no matter what guage. So I found some tables of values
adopted by AIEE in January, 1914 and still in effect (as of 1977)
showing
the following:
AWG ft/lb ohms/1000ft diameter(mm)
32 5160 162 .203
30 3300 104 .254
28 2080 65.3 .320
26 1310 41.0 .404
24 818 25.7 .511
22 516 16.2 .643
20 323 10.1 .813
18 256 8.05 1.02
16 128 4.02 1.29
14 80.4 2.52 1.63
12 50.6 1.59 2.05
(for amusement:)
56 1 380 000 43.2k .012 (over 261 miles/lb!)
Sorry I can't quote the reference, I just have photocopies. I CAN get
it
from a friend if you're interested. The table includes all values from
56
down to 4/0, and even values up to 56. I thought these might be
pertinent.
If you're interested in a guage not shown let me know. There are lots
of
other formulas such as relation between temperature, conductivity and
resistivity of copper, but this is getting pretty picky for me.
While looking up this table, there on the previous page was the
formula
for skin effect, which I recall someone asking about recently.
Here it is:
"The current intensity falls off exponentially with depth. The depth of
penetration (s=sigma) is the depth at which the current intensity has
fallen to 1/e of its value at the surface, where e equals 2.718...
At three- and four-times the depth of penetration, the current intensity
is
5 percent and 2 percent of that at the surface respectively.
Where the diameter of the conductor is large compared to the depth of
penetration, the total current is the same as if the surface current
intensity were maintained to a depth of penetration.
s = 503.3sqrt(rho/(urf)) millimeters
rho = resistivity in ohm-meters
= 1.72x10e-8 for copper
= 2.83x10e-8 for aluminum
ur = mu r = relative magnetic permeability
= 1 for both copper and aluminum
f = frequency in magahertz
For example, for copper the depth of penetration is as follows:
MHz Depth of Penetration sigma (mm)
.1 .209
1. .066
10. .021
100. .0066
1000. .0021
Sorry, .1 is the lowest frequency it gives. Anyone know the quanities of
skin effect for skin?
I hope you find this information of use.
- Owen -
owen-at-iosphere-dot-net
http://www.iosphere-dot-net/~owen