Re: Avalon, and Lockout for Safety

["Christopher Boden" <chrisboden-at-hotmail-dot-com> (by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>)]

>Original poster: Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>At 06:53 PM 8/17/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >ahhhhh, another afternoon exploring and dreaming while the bean counters
> >cry.....
> >
> >A couple HV safety questions....
> >
> >1. We found a >250kVA 14.4KV - 2.4KV pad mount transformer and attached
> >switchgear shed. There is a lockout tag on the door handle, with 2 VERY
> >faded tags and a padlock. The tags have been there for years, and the
> >padlock is too far gone for a key to open it. It's obviously from work 
>being
> >done long before the shutdown, but I have second thoughs about removing 
>it.
> >It's soo deeply ingrained into my education that you NEVER UNDER ANY
> >CIRCUMSTANCE REMOVE ANOTHER MANS PADLOCK FROM A LOCKOUT, to do so is
> >literally attempted manslaughter and just cause for a serious beating if
> >you're lucky and no-one gets hurt. What should I do?
>
>Is the tag on the shed "door"?

Yup

If so, the utility company probably
>"condemned" something and legally shut the service down.  They should have
>a record of the circumstances...  There would have been some big fine if
>one tried to re-energize the circuits or whatever.  I imagine no one cares
>anymore...  "I" would have electricity to the shed removed (or to the whole
>place shut down at this time).  That way, when you walk in and find
>yourself standing in a foot of "odd liquids", you don't have to worry about
>being electrocuted...  I assume nothing electrical is essential, so it is
>best just to remove all power to the facility.  Thus avoiding having to
>call "the boys" out all the time to shut this and that down...

The lock is through a standard 6-hole ring type lockout device. The lockout 
is ty-wrapped to the handle of the door to the switchgear on a dead 
transformer. It's NOT CP property and they wouldn't even touch it.

CP was there today to shutdown everything above 220VAC so that we still have 
LV for lighting and such but don't have the HV in the cages (there are 2 
rooms of exposed HV switchgear, one in the powerplant, 1 in mill-C) I'll 
post pics of these in a week or so.



>
>Of course, if the tags are on a lever to re-energize the transformer.
>Cutting the lock and pulling the handle will probably result in instant 
>death!!


poof

>
> >
> >2. We found several 2400VAC 250+KVA pigs in a courtyard in the center of 
>4
> >buildings. They are old Allis Chalmers units and about 5' tall in a bank 
>3,
> >with another 3 smaller ones off to the side. Are these of any use for a
> >large coil?
>
>Probably not.  Voltage too low...


I'll bet Reinhard would love one :)

>
> >
> >Consumers (the power company) came out with 3 guys who spent a lot of 
>time
> >telling me "That's not our responsibility" and "I have no idea"....I fail 
>to
> >be impressed. They couldn't find out why anything was working the way it
> >was, and claimed no rsponsibility for ANYTHING. They also were a little
> >upset when, while walking OUT of the gas pit (the fenced in area where 
>the
> >main gas valves are) I was the last one out and spotted 2 seperate leaks
> >(small ones, but this is a 200psi 6" line) in the fittings. They left
> >without doing anything about it saying "We'll call it in" I thought the 
>city
> >building inspector was going to have kittens. :)
>
>Have the gas service shut off...  If this place is as unkept as it sounds,
>just have all these electrical and gas hazards removed for the time being.
>Get a generator and lights...

Have 5 15KW generators in the budget already :) And they were there to 
shutdown the Gas mains as well. All the big mains for the boilers (6 to 8") 
are off, the little one (2"HVLP) is still on so we can install heaters. I 
SHOULD have left one of the 8" ones on. The meters on the 8"HP lines 
wouldn't ever register the use from the heaters in the powerhouse....lol.


>
> >
> >They DID like the idea of a LARGE coil out there though, in the future, 
>when
> >I meltdown their toy substation playing Thor I'll have to remember to 
>tell
> >them...
>
>Oh good!!!  They will be your best friends when it comes time to reconnect
>things and make it work.  Don't worry, the power in your Avalon is small
>potatoes to them ;-)  These people work with 375Kv 1000 amp continuous AC
>24-7 (even when there is a blizzard).  Their substation will easily protect
>itself from you, lightning, and natural disasters...  Maybe you can have
>them show you some of there stuff.  Visit a power station and some of the
>"big" substations if they will let you (they will).  You can learn a lot of
>useful stuff from seeing what they play with too!!

I've toured the B.C.Cobb plant (my best friends dad worked there), and the 
Bryce Edwin Morrow plant (the original location for Avalon), my Grandfather 
was a DFL, and my dad was a Sub-Tech for about 6 years in my youth. I even 
have a copy of the Substation Standards for Consumers Power, a 6"thick 3ring 
binder tlling EVERYTHING about Substation construction in Michigan. Even 
down the the lettering on the signs! Wow!

I'm looking foreward to having my own HV switchgear to rip apart and study 
firsthand though....there will be a lot to learn. Anybody wanna come play?


>
> >
> >"Sorry, but that, being upstream of my meter, is not my responsibility" 
>lol
>
>They are right.  It's "your" problem Chris!! ;-)


Yeah, I know. But it's the kind of problems I love to have. Some problems in 
this world ar great. I.E.

Where am I gonna put 6 165kVA pigs?

How do I remove an 80'high smokestak from my roof to make $20G on the scrap?

What building do I remodel first?

How do I pay $500,000 in property taxes?

How do I control the arcs from my 1MVA coil?

THESE are the problems I LOVE having

>
> >
> >hmmmmm...perhaps I'll start breeding lab rats. Then I'll put them in
> >rat-wheels, with belts and pullies spinning a long shaft to a
> >generator....we'll be off the grid :) I wonder how many rats = 1KVA?
>
>A big 1MVA generator is a real option here!!
>

Do they make them in Diesel?

>BTW - Be sure to get a good picture of yourself in front of the Avalon
>"now".  That way, we will know what you "used" to look like! :-))  Sort of
>like what president look like before taking office.  Dark hair, no
>ulcers,... :-)))
>

Oh...NOW who's being smart ;) I had Neem shoot 4 rolls of film last week, 
her new scanner is a psin and we SHOULD be posting them in a week or so, as 
soon as they scan they email to me and I'll post them.
There's a lot to see :)


>I do have on big suggestion.  Run ads in the local papers and try to find
>former workers from this place.  If you can find any former maintenance
>people, engineers, etc.  They would be a gold mine of information about the
>electrical and other issues you are facing.  These places tended to run on
>some "good ol boy's" knowledge back then...  Find the people who used to
>"make this place run" and try and get them to help you make it run again!


GREAT IDEA! I'm on it.

>
>Good luck!!
>
>Cheers,
>
>	Terry
>
> >
> >There's one for the math gurus....lol


I DID post a bit about the new facility on our website. 
http://members.iserv-dot-net/geek2/ go to Facilities, then Avalon, and no 
complaints if you can't read it, it's your own fault for using Netscape. :)


Christopher A. Boden Geek#1
President / Founder
The Geek Group
www.geekgroup-dot-org
Because the Geek shall inherit the Earth!

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail-dot-com