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Hello, Variacs: Remember, these are auto-transformers. The primary is also the secondary. When you use less than 100% of the tap point where the supply power connects, the current in = the current out, minus a little loss due to efficiency. But, when you push to 100% or higher output, the input current goes up rapidly due to needing to also excite the top windings. So 10 amps output may require 15 amps or more on the input section of the winding. By changing the rotor position under load causes brush arcing, which is especially bad near the upper input tap point of the winding. One way to protect your variac is to use a series reactor. Preset the variac to a constant setting, then close in with a disconnect switch (like a motor starter) and soft start it. Then step up the series reactor to full run position. It's better to never move the variac if you are under heavy inductive load as a variac is actually a series of voltage steps (like going up a ladder). Variacs are discontinuous and not like a carbon potentiometer. If you want a heavy duty variac, you need a 6-gang 480-VAC unit... higher input voltage to reduce the current load on the brushes and 6-gang to handle the heat. You need to try a https://variac.com/staco_50006000_series_3_9_motor.htm Be careful! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tesla [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tesla-request@xxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 12:30 PM To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: Tesla Digest, Vol 141, Issue 2 Send Tesla mailing list submissions to tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tesla-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at tesla-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tesla digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Variac choices. (James Janota) 2. Re: Variac choices. (derstrom8@xxxxxxx) 3. Re: Variac choices. (Bert Hickman) 4. Re: Variac choices. (Andrew Robinson) 5. Re: Variac choices. (Chip Atkinson) 6. Re: Variac choices. (Yurtle Turtle) 7. Re: Variac choices. (Miles Mauldin) 8. Effects of Frequency (Jeremiah Schmidt) 9. Looking for caps (Brian Decosta) 10. Re: Effects of Frequency (Frank) 11. Picture of the Tesla coil elements. (James Janota) 12. Re: Picture of the Tesla coil elements. (Gary Lau) 13. Re: Picture of the Tesla coil elements. (Rinner) 14. Small tweak to anti-spam rules.. (Chip Atkinson) 15. Need capacitors (Brian Decosta) 16. Re: Need capacitors (Yurtle Turtle) 17. Re: Need capacitors (Daniel Kunkel) 18. Re: Need capacitors (Ronald Reeland) 19. Re: Need capacitors (Allen Bishop) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:01:30 -0400 From: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <2B2CFE35-A92E-429D-98EE-87AC5415CDD4@xxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was looking at various Variac models and kind of concerned about what I should be looking at. Any advice from you all would be appreciated. Regards James Janota (727)512-7112 Phone (727)595-6625 Fax ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:15:37 +0000 (UTC) From: derstrom8@xxxxxxx To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <43690632.3957236.1565828137249@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello James, First of all, I recommend staying away from the ultra-cheap Chinese ones like this: https://www.circuitspecialists.com/content/451335/tdgc2-2d-0.jpg I know that it may be tempting to go for it simply because it's ridiculously cheap (for a variac), but usually if the price seems too good to be true, it is.These cheap Chinese-made ones have an extremely poor build quality and are known to fail very easily and frequently - the windings and contacts melt, causing irreparable damage and even safety hazards.? Generally speaking, your best option is to look for older models. You might try Ebay, though shipping will probably be an issue due to the weight. Also check Craigslist or even Facebook Marketplace. You can sometimes find some gems there. Same with swap meets or hamfests. Also check with your local university, though I have never had much luck with this option. Then again, I live up in the sticks so there's really not a whole lot up here anyway.... Be mindful of the current rating of the Variac. While they can normally handle large surges (~10x their rated current) for very short periods of time, they should not be left connected to a load which draws above the rated current for an extended period of time. This can cause overheating and permanent damage to the windings and/or brushes. Choose one with a current rating that will be suitable for your application. Also be aware that if you buy one rated for higher than 15 amps, a standard household outlet will not be able to handle it. Just a few tips to get you started. Best, Matt Lewis, Fairlee VT -----Original Message----- From: James Janota via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> To: tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2019 7:36 pm Subject: [TCML] Variac choices. I was looking at various Variac models and kind of concerned about what I should be looking at. Any advice from you all would be appreciated. Regards James Janota (727)512-7112 Phone (727)595-6625 Fax _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:29:20 -0500 From: Bert Hickman <bert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <ce92ceb8-9647-f58a-c673-f8f0128347da@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hi James, Surplus US-manufactured variable autotransformers are significantly more robust and reliable than newer Chinese autotransformers. For example, surplus Staco, Superior, Ohmite, General Radio, and GE are built to run at 100% of their face plate ratings continuously, and at 2X their rated current for up to 20 minutes. Most 115-120 volt units are rated at full current for the full output range of 0-130 or 0-140 volts. For example, here are Staco's overload curves. The overload ratings for the other manufacturers are similar: http://www.capturedlightning.com/photos/P-Chokes/staco_Overload_graph.jpg Unfortunately, Chinese autotransformers are made using smaller cores, fewer turns of smaller diameter wire, and smaller sized brushes. They use every trick in the book to minimize manufacturing cost, just like hot-running microwave oven transformers. As a result, these units tend to overheat when operated for any length of time at the "rated" output current. Also, look carefully at the specifications - some Chinese manufacturers specify rated output current at only 100 volts, not up to the maximum output voltage. Because these units have fewer turns and smaller core cross-sectional area, they operate closer to core saturation, causing them to draw more no-load current. The smaller core and wire mass result in less thermal mass, which when combined with lower operating efficiency, they run hot, and quickly overheat when stressed. So, as long as you don't abuse them and let them cool down periodically, Chinese variacs can be made to work for Tesla Coil use. However, if you're like most coilers, you'll need the reserve power handling of a solidly-made variac when you start cranking up the power to "11" or "12". I'd recommend getting a surplus US-made variac off eBay or at a hamfest if you plan to do any serious coiling. Bert James Janota via Tesla wrote: > I was looking at various Variac models and kind of concerned about what I should be looking at. Any advice from you all would be appreciated. > > Regards > > James Janota > (727)512-7112 Phone > (727)595-6625 Fax > > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:31:15 -0400 From: "Andrew Robinson" <arobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "'James Janota'" <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <014501d55322$46e7d690$d4b783b0$@teslamad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Contact me off list. I have a few very large Powerstat and Staco variac stacks I am looking to offload. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:57:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx> To: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.21.1908150756360.12710@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Where are you located and what size are you looking at? On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, James Janota via Tesla wrote: > I was looking at various Variac models and kind of concerned about what I should be looking at. Any advice from you all would be appreciated. > > Regards > > James Janota > (727)512-7112 Phone > (727)595-6625 Fax > > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:50:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx, James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <851326467.346869.1565877044713@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Ham Fests are a great place to find them. As others have mentioned, stay with tried and true manufacturers. Look for burnt windings and brush length. Brushes are wear items, and may already be past their useful lives. On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 7:36:15 PM EDT, James Janota via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I was looking at various Variac models and kind of concerned about what I should be looking at. Any advice from you all would be appreciated. Regards James Janota (727)512-7112 Phone (727)595-6625 Fax _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 14:37:39 -0400 From: Miles Mauldin <teslamiles@xxxxxxx> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac choices. Message-ID: <3122B97B-6FDE-4369-BCE9-7776776D91F2@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andrew, Sent you an email, maybe sitting in your SPAM folder. Contacting you regarding Variacs. Best! Miles Sent from a device with a tiny keyboard... > On Aug 15, 2019, at 12:31 AM, Andrew Robinson <arobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Contact me off list. I have a few very large Powerstat and Staco variac > stacks I am looking to offload. > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 09:48:40 -0600 From: Jeremiah Schmidt <jeremiahschmidt1018@xxxxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Effects of Frequency Message-ID: <CAHRoP7CYZrA-S3bQB_iv_ojwCDcSWhkNXtx4o8eph=xNjPFa7g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" So, just a curiousity. I was scoping PTs on a surplus site, and seen alot of marine and aero generators/transformers that operate on a 400Hz frequency. A brief googling explained the purpose of the higher frequency for better dc rectification. But just kind of a hypothetical... What would the effects of hooking up a general SGTC to a higher frequency line? Component-wise, and as a whole overall? Alchemy(n): When scientific methods become more art than science. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:05:56 -0500 From: Brian Decosta <briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> To: Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Looking for caps Message-ID: <36405A12-2940-4A98-8B17-D6BD6F52D25B@xxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps that they are not using? If so I need about 10 of them. Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 13:15:14 -0700 From: Frank <fxrays@xxxxxxxxxx> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Effects of Frequency Message-ID: <7B.D2.25020.8D45C5D5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed 400 hz does not need as much iron in transformers or large capacities for power supplies. Less filtering was required for the DC at higher frequencies. This meant smaller component sizes and less weight for the avionics to help conserve weight in the aircraft. This meant they could have higher payloads and less fuel waste lugging "necessary" parts of the aircraft. At 09:48 AM 20/08/19 -0600, you wrote: >So, just a curiousity. I was scoping PTs on a surplus site, and seen alot >of marine and aero generators/transformers that operate on a 400Hz >frequency. A brief googling explained the purpose of the higher frequency >for better dc rectification. >But just kind of a hypothetical... >What would the effects of hooking up a general SGTC to a higher frequency >line? Component-wise, and as a whole overall? > >Alchemy(n): When scientific methods become more art than science. >_______________________________________________ >Tesla mailing list >Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:20:12 -0400 From: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Picture of the Tesla coil elements. Message-ID: <9E3743A1-AA42-4875-AD82-5BFF62959328@xxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I hope this works. These are pictures of the stuff I made and procured to build my SGTC. Can someone critique the stuff I have made? https://photos.app.goo.gl/azRZWVatmYd9SRHe6 Regards James Janota (727)512-7112 Phone (727)595-6625 Fax ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 21:28:40 -0400 From: Gary Lau <glau1024@xxxxxxxxx> To: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Picture of the Tesla coil elements. Message-ID: <CAKV84bbmfWDOZnMhA7357G-R0Rn2wNo-L=GYRiE4p64ouU=ZPQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi James, Good start! A few observations... I was unable to read what value resistor you are using for bleeder resistors, but it appeared that you just wrapped the leads together, rather than soldering? I'd recommend soldering them It looks like you have a 25-long string of 0.15uF/600VDC CD 942C caps. The overall value comes to .006uF @15KVDC. The cap type and uF rating are a good match for your 15/30 NST, but the voltage rating is a bit on the low side, given that the peak bang voltage is going to be at least 21KV. It will work, but with a limited lifespan. I couldn't judge the secondary dimensions, but the coil looked to be rather candle-sticky (long and skinny). Generally we shoot for an aspect ratio of 1:5 with about 1000 turns, although there is nothing sacred about these numbers. 4" PVC is typical for your NST size. Where are you? I'm still trying to give away a 4" secondary, provided I don't have to pack & ship it. Regards, Gary Lau MA, USA On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:05 PM James Janota via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I hope this works. These are pictures of the stuff I made and procured to > build my SGTC. Can someone critique the stuff I have made? > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/azRZWVatmYd9SRHe6 > > Regards > > James Janota > (727)512-7112 Phone > (727)595-6625 Fax > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 16:06:23 -0500 From: Rinner <msweeney23@xxxxxxxxx> To: James Janota <j.janota@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Picture of the Tesla coil elements. Message-ID: <CALKWr0Z5kU4nLUx4HNBHQ5gu2sHrkCjiFadfN-sHRgYexSe=bA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >From my own experience I would strongly suggest soldering those bleeder resistors and clipping the wire flush with the solder bead. Try to minimize sharp points in that area as much as possible it can have a big impact on overall performance. On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 8:05 PM James Janota via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I hope this works. These are pictures of the stuff I made and procured to > build my SGTC. Can someone critique the stuff I have made? > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/azRZWVatmYd9SRHe6 > > Regards > > James Janota > (727)512-7112 Phone > (727)595-6625 Fax > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 07:57:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Small tweak to anti-spam rules.. Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.21.1908260756001.3673@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Greetings, I made a small tweak to the anti-spam rules on the server. I don't think it should block anyone, but if you do find you are unable to send to the list, let me know at chip.atkinson@xxxxxxxxx Chip ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:21:27 -0500 From: Brian Decosta <briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> To: Tesla Mailing List <Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [TCML] Need capacitors Message-ID: <40418D75-5B7B-4620-B17A-6F2633EAC141@xxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps that they are not using? If so I need about 10 of them. Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:26:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx> To: Tesla Mailing List <Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Need capacitors Message-ID: <130442337.3184167.1566905177138@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 "Eurofarad". Is that a thing, or just a joke/pun/?? On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 7:20:59 AM EDT, Brian Decosta <briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps that they are not using?? If so I need about 10 of them. Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 08:04:06 -0500 From: Daniel Kunkel <dankunkel@xxxxxxxxx> To: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx>, Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Need capacitors Message-ID: <CAA7NYCfE4OscK4J=zvH98Yny+ZfM0jbcWz9bnAiN_UwxZe=_XQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Yurtle, It threw me for a loop too! Surely it is an auto-correct thing. However, from what I can tell, "Eurofarad" is a brand of capacitor. The part number is also specifically mentioned here: http://onetesla.com/tutorials/resonator-design But there are more examples: https://www.tedss.com/2020039156 Thanks, ~Dan Kansas City area On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:50 AM Yurtle Turtle via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > "Eurofarad". Is that a thing, or just a joke/pun/?? > > On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 7:20:59 AM EDT, Brian Decosta < > briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps > that they are not using? If so I need about 10 of them. > > Thanks > > Brian > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > > _______________________________________________ > Tesla mailing list > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla > ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:33:18 +0000 From: Ronald Reeland <ronreeland@xxxxxxx> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>, Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Need capacitors Message-ID: <DM5PR15MB1803A5391D353F14B6D781A0C3A00@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.outlook. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eurofarad is the name of a capacitor manufacturer locate in France. Here is a link to their website: https://supplyfx.com/company/8987-eurofarad The name was new to me for sure. Ron ________________________________ From: Tesla <tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Yurtle Turtle via Tesla <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:26 AM To: Tesla Mailing List <Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>; Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [TCML] Need capacitors "Eurofarad". Is that a thing, or just a joke/pun/?? On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 7:20:59 AM EDT, Brian Decosta <briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps that they are not using? If so I need about 10 of them. Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:12:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Allen Bishop <co60bishop@xxxxxxx> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [TCML] Need capacitors Message-ID: <741774116.1970534.1566922339007@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Whatever for? Those are starting motor caps and surely would never work as a capacitor string for the primary of a Tesla coil. Allen BishopColorado Springs -----Original Message----- From: Brian Decosta <briandecosta38305@xxxxxxxxx> To: Tesla Mailing List <Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tue, Aug 27, 2019 5:20 am Subject: [TCML] Need capacitors Does anyone on the list have any SP2550-2 Eurofarad 3.75 uF 580V RMS caps that they are not using?? If so I need about 10 of them. Thanks Brian Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla ------------------------------ End of Tesla Digest, Vol 141, Issue 2 ************************************* _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla