Re: [TCML] Secondary Coil: Wire Gauge and Number of Turns

[Scott Bogard <sdbogard@xxxxxxxxx>]

Brandon,
     For the secondary, don't worry about wire gauge so much, it is just
one very minor part of the overall system.  Choose it reactively, like I
said before, you should size the secondary to suit the power draw of the
system.  Heavier wire will work just fine I suspect, but by experimentation
the optimal has already been found to be between 1000-1500 turns, this is
accepted as fact.  DC resistance, inductance, self capacitance, all these
things have been factored in in this configuration for a standard TC.  As I
understand it, a magnifier coil is much different and leaves more room for
experimentation; optimal usually means a small inductance and ungodly huge
self capacitance for the secondary (physically huge coil with few turns)
and a huge inductance, and very small self capacitance for the tertiery
(small coil with 1000 turns).  Ok, backing up, we are looking for big
sparks yes?  The single best way to accomplish that is by having optimal
power throughput into the tank capacitor, I would focus all of your
research energy on that and forget about the secondary, you can pretty much
pick a design and go with that, it is super NOT critical unless you make it
too small and it melts, which you are not.  There is no magic design that
leads to better performance, there is just an array of designs that work
well, and they center around 1200 turns.  1000 is not better, 1500 is not
better, 1200 is not better, they all work fine.  If you really want heavier
wire scale the entire coil up, just know that this lowers your resonate
frequency, and you need to make other adjustments to maintain optimal power
draw.  This is where most weak performing designs run into trouble, their
carefully crafted secondaries and poorly designed tank circuits don't match
up, and power draw is limited.  I can all but guarantee using 800 turns
will do absolutely nothing noticeable to your performance, which is
completely independent of secondary size, all the magic, is in the tank
circuit, and getting the secondary perfectly sized and happy to receive
those electrons from the wall.  It is the last parameter, let it choose
it's own size.  My first coil had only 400 turns, and it worked like crap,
because to keep it in tune I had to use a very small capacitor, which drove
my ideal BPS way into impractical range for a static gap.  I only figured
this out when I lashed up an async gap, and reved it WAY up, and got triple
my normal performance for the roughly 4 seconds before the gap blew apart
(FYI, never "lash up" a rotary gap, do the homework and do it correctly so
it doesn't try to kill you).  So yeah, worked great with 400 turns, except
I put my system in an inconvenient balance point with respect to physical
limitations to my tank circuit (particularly the spark gap.)  Anyway
stepping down off of my soap box, don't let me or anybody else tell you
what is best, try it for yourself and see how it goes, but keep in mind why
we say what works and what doesn't, and then you'll be able to make a
truely informed decision, and choose a design that is optimally
satisfactory.  Maybe you'll start a design revolution that uses a special
spark gap and 200 turn coils and performs great, who knows?

Scott Bogard.


On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Brandon Hendershot <
brandonhendershot@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> So I'm thinking of further heeding the advice of the majority party and try
> even thicker wire on the secondary.
>
> 876 Turns of 20 AWG, 28" x 6.6" (4.25:1)
>
> Moving my playground to JavaTC, I find I'm getting drastically smaller
> primary coil tap point values: just six turns!
>
> I've included the plain text output, BUT BEFORE we delve into that mess, I
> have one more question I couldn't quite find the answer to: What is
> "Secondary Q"?
>
> Thank you all very much!
>
> -Brandon H.
>
> [JavaTC Output]
>
> Units = Inches
> Ambient Temp = 80°F
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Surrounding Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 48 = Ground Plane Radius
> 0 = Wall Radius
> 0 = Ceiling Height
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Secondary Coil Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Current Profile = G.PROFILE_LOADED
> 3.3 = Radius 1
> 3.3 = Radius 2
> 16 = Height 1
> 44 = Height 2
> 876 = Turns
> 20 = Wire Awg
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Primary Coil Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Round Primary Conductor
> 3.75 = Radius 1
> 7.32 = Radius 2
> 16 = Height 1
> 16 = Height 2
> 6.8941 = Turns
> 0.25 = Wire Diameter
> 0 = Ribbon Width
> 0 = Ribbon Thickness
> 0.055 = Primary Cap (uF)
> 12 = Total Lead Length
> 0.25 = Lead Diameter
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Top Load Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Toroid #1: minor=8, major=26.5, height=50, topload
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Secondary Outputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 165.48 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency
> 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary
> 28 inch = Length of Winding
> 31.3 inch = Turns Per Unit
> 0 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge)
> 1513.6 ft = Length of Wire
> 4.24:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio
> 15.6417 Ohms = DC Resistance
> 28043 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance
> 4.68 lbs = Weight of Wire
> 26.972 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance
> 27.98 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance
> 27.184 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
> 34.296 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance
> 33.06 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance
> 54.46 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance
> 6.79 mils = Skin Depth
> 27.959 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance
> 78.532 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance
> 357 = Q
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Primary Outputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 163.02 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency
> 1.49 % high = Percent Detuned
> 0 deg° = Angle of Primary
> 19.98 ft = Length of Wire
> 3.4 mOhms = DC Resistance
> 0.268 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge)
> 0.309 inch = Proximity between coils
> 1.77 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils
> 17.055 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
> 0.05337 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference)
> 0.275 µH = Lead Length Inductance
> 115.469 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance
> 0.17 k = Coupling Coefficient
> 0.137 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient
> 5.88  = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K
> 17.71 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Transformer Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 120 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage
> 15000 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage
> 120 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current
> 60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency
> 140 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage
> 0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Transformer Outputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 1800 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA
> 125000 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence
> 17500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage
> 17.5 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current
> 0.14 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current
> 2450 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA
> 0.0212 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size
> 0.0318 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size
> 0.0553 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size
> 332 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size
> 24749 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap
> 61872 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating
> 16.84 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy
> 1405.4 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current
> 71.5 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp.
> factors)
> 35.1 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Rotary Spark Gap Inputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 2 = Number of Stationary Gaps
> 2 = Number of Rotating Electrodes
> 1800 [rpm] = Disc RPM
> 0.125 = Rotating Electrode Diameter
> 0.125 = Stationary Electrode Diameter
> 8.7 = Rotating Path Diameter
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Rotary Spark Gap Outputs:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 4 = Presentations Per Revolution
> 120 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
> 46.6 [mph] = Rotational Speed
> 8.33 [ms] = RSG Firing Rate
> 34.375 [ms] = Time for Capacitor to Fully Charge
> 1.21 = Time Constant at Gap Conduction
> 304.89 [µs] = Electrode Mechanical Dwell Time
> 70.24 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
> 17385 [peak volts] = Effective Cap Voltage
> 8.31 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
> 709077 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
> 997 [power] = Energy Across Gap
> 76.1 [inch] = RSG Spark Length (using energy equation)
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