[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [TCML] Toroid question



Dex,

Yes, the spark lengths decreased for equal power input as I increased the PPS rate. I agree that large bang size is very important. Yes, larger coils have lower losses,
and that may account for the better efficiencies of the larger coils.

My old research coil using a regular 12/30 NST, drew about 620 watts, and gave 42" sparks. That's how much power they draw when the system is set up as mine was. I fed the NST with 140 volts input... that's part of the key to the excess power draw. Probably
some saturation going on at that voltage.  Not
many folks realize they can draw that much power. My TT-42 coil is not as efficient
because it was built for portability.

The coils you mentioned for which the factor varied from 1.5 to 2.... I see that as still being close to the formula, since the formula is a rough guide. I've mentioned over the years that the factor can be changed for certain coils, etc. I just used 1.7 as a sort of average for various coils. I've seen even rather small coils
show a factor of 2.0, such as the solid state DRSSTC types.

Regarding the diameter of the secondary, I don't have a lot of faith in that concept. I think smaller diameter coils may often use smaller toroids, or have too few turns of wire, etc. I'd like to do the comparison tests myself, but I haven't gotten around to it. It's true that a larger diameter coil has more inductance for a given number of turns, and will show lower losses, etc. But I don't think it should make a great difference for spark length. I'm sure it will make some. Of course an extremely tall narrow coil would be bad, since it would be hard to couple, and might not have enough inductance, etc. I like to think of the diameter as increasing as the overall coil size increases, just to keep everything
in proportion, electrically and all.

Cheers,
John


-----Original Message-----
From: Dex Dexter <dexterlabs@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 7:42 am
Subject: Re: [TCML] Toroid question



John,
Thanks for clearing up these doubts.
I understand it is an empirical formula for how a well constructed spark gap coil should perform aproxinately.You gave an example of 12 kv/ 30 mA NST coil with SRG and 120 PPS delivering 38" sparks.I know one can even squeeze out little more juice than 360 W from such NST ,but not much.Therefore the coil outperforms the formula prediction and factor b=1.7 in spark lenght = b*SQRT(P)
should be replaced by b=2.
I'm wondering if you observed a gradual spark lenght decrease in your tests as you changed sync PPS rate from 120 PPS to 240 PPS,and then to 480 PPS keeping the input power same all the time?The efficiency of power source unit matters ,but not much for bigger coils.Also power factors are high enough for SRG systems and folks are right when plugging VA instead of W.Speaking of larger
coils,I don't know much data either.Here's what I've found out so far:

K.Eldridge's big Oklahoma coil:
Power input:30 kW
Break rate:120 PPS SRG
Bang size:~250 J
Spark lenght:26-27 ft

M.Denicolai's "Thor":
Power input:5 kW
Break rate: 250 PPS,DC charger realisation
Bang size:~20 J
Spark lenght:10 ft

G.Leyh's Electrum :
Power input: 95 kW
Break rate: 360 PPS,DC charger realisation
Bang size:266 J
Spark lenght:~40 ft

Dr. Resonance's Australia coil:
Power input:~150 kW
Break rate:120 PPS SRG
Bang size: ~ 1250 J
Spark lenght: 78 ft

The only system here which follows well the formula is Thor with b=1.7.The Oklahoma coil has b~1.85 while Electrum has b~1.5.I noticed that despite much higher power level Electrum use aprox the same bang size as the Oklahoma coil,but works at 3x higher PPS rate.Contoversal Dr.Resonance's coil uses even more power,but what differs drastically is a huge bang size of it.If the data is correct that coil has b=2.4.I think bang size means a lot.Also it is known fact that bigger coils with larger diameters tolerate higher couplings and larger bang sizes.I'm not sure if the smaller aspect ratios and larger diameters give the only advantage due to possibilty of higher coupling and larger bang sizes or there's something more to it (unknown to me).Here's interesting paper of Dr. Resonance regarding the role of secondary diameter in Tesla coil's spark
performances:

http://www.classictesla.com/download/resonance_tips.pdf


Dex


_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla