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Re: [TCML] New Double Toroid idea works!



Hi Phil,

Very cool! I am no doubt surprised regarding the toroid interconnect. I wasn't originally thinking of a 4" transmission line, but rather a rod of sorts. Regardless, I still would have figured the smaller radius would have promoted some problems, but apparently that's not the case. I wonder if each toroid was adding some shielding to the transmission line? But 34" is a decent distance apart, so had I even known the final details in the beginning, I still would have expected transmission breakout. Go figure!

You know what would be an interesting test is to extend the edge to edge transmission distance (if the flex allows) and see if it remains controlled.

Excellent experiment! I'm really glad you tried it. Opinions and theory are guides, but only experiments can prove or disprove an idea.

Great job!
Bart

FIFTYGUY@xxxxxxx wrote:
Remember when Scott Bogard wrote:
Adding a top load lowers the tesla coils resonant frequency, what about
adding a bottom load? Would
putting a toroid or some kind of capacitor between the coil and ground
lower the coils resonant frequency?
At first glance it didn't seem like much of an idea. But it *did* get me to thinking:
Could one run a "transmission line" from the topload to another toroid
some
distance away? And then use breakouts on this second topload to force it
to
act as the main discharge point? Seems safer and easier than a magnifier configuration, but with all the spacing benefits. Plus easier to make and transport two separate small toroids than one big one.

Bart didn't think much of this:
Not sure. I doubt it. The transmission line would likely be the breakout point if of a 2 coil systems normal turns. Note in maggy's, the driver has >only 200 to 300
turns.
The extra coil is the high turn coil. If the driver had high turns, the transmission line would be a serious breakout problem.

What appears good in visualization is rarely true in reality (physics is
the
cause).
Well, guess what? It works *very* well, thank you! I've been having chronic problems with my Pig SISG killing itself by secondary strikes hitting the electronics under the primary. So a few weeks ago, I set up my "extra" toroid and gave it a try! I kept my "good" toroid (very smooth home made 8" x 36") over the secondary. I had a spare "ugly" 8" x 36", so I located it at the same height, but 70" away (center-to-center, so 34" edge-to-edge). I put the "extra" toroid on a piece of 8" PVC pipe. I connected the two with a piece of 4" OD aluminum flexduct. Despite the much smaller radius of curvature, at no time did any streamers come from the 4" flexduct. With a breakout point on the "extra" toroid, all the streamers came from the extra. When I started pushing way too much power into the coil, a few streamers occasionally came from the main toroid to an unlucky piece of nearby plywood sheeting. But one doesn't usually put 8 kVA into a 6" non-maggy coil with an 8x36 toroid! Yes, I had to re-tune because of the extra topload capacitance. This was actually quite convenient. For one, it allows you to significantly increase the topload without having to resort to a single, awkwardly large toroid. Stacking toroids vertically seems to allow only minimal gains because they get "lumped" electrostatically. Sure, you decrease the Cprim/Csec ratio which theoretically lowers the voltage gain. But at the same time, I've heard the larger Csec mitigates harmonics, stores more charge before breakout, and increases the discharge current during each bang. With no other modifications other than adding the extra toroid and retuning, I'd say the spark length increased 10-15%. It was noticeable, and surprising. Maybe it was really due to lower losses in the SISG from a lower Fres and lower primary current. All I know is that it definitely helped! Not willing to leave well enough alone, I decided to move the primary tap back to fewer turns, and increase the primary cap for more power. That's how I ended up running .150 uF of primary cap, and blowing up another SISG section. Maybe when I hook up the 12" coil and I can get the Fres way down, I'll push it to .300 uF and see how long things last... -Phil LaBudde
Center for the Advanced Study of Ballistic  Improbabilities



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