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Re: engineers and scientists was [TCML] Wireless Transmission Theory



Peter,
   I almost forgot! That reply was not planned at all.. ;)

It was fairly late and I was tired when I replied.. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Terren <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:38:09 AM
Subject: Re: engineers and scientists was [TCML] Wireless Transmission Theory


Ben, 
on 
my 
computer 
your 
enclosure 
of 
Jim 
Lux's 
reply 
was 
1 
word 
per 
line 
giving 
about 
20 
full 
pages. 
Probably 
a 
TCML 
record.

And 
in 
regard 
to 
the 
topic 
and 
your 
multiple 
degrees, 
I 
can 
only 
boast 
of 
dropping 
out 
of 
physics 
after 
the 
first 
year.  
Basically 
I 
just 
do 
pretty 
picures.....

Peter
www.tesladownunder.com

----- 
Original 
Message 
----- 
From: 
"Ben 
McMillen" 
<spoonman534@xxxxxxxxx>
To: 
"Tesla 
Coil 
Mailing 
List" 
<tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 
Sunday, 
February 
10, 
2008 
2:47 
PM
Subject: 
Re: 
engineers 
and 
scientists 
was 
[TCML] 
Wireless 
Transmission 
Theory


> 
Jim, 
all,
>  
 
As 
an 
engineer 
AND 
a 
scientist 
(currently 
a 
PhD 
candidate 
and 
the 
proud 
> 
recipient 
of 
two 
degrees 
in 
engineering) 
I'd 
like 
to 
comment 
that 
> 
engineers 
make 
the 
best 
scientists. 
Yes, 
we 
do 
to 
learn, 
but 
half 
the 
> 
learning 
is 
the 
doing. 
Every 
opportunity 
is 
another 
chance 
to 
practice 
the 
> 
'doing' 
to 
get 
to 
the 
final 
goal 
of 
understanding. 
If 
you're 
doing 
it 
> 
right, 
you're 
getting 
*both* 
for 
the 
price 
of 
one..
>
> 
No 
idea 
if 
this 
makes 
any 
sense, 
but 
it's 
always 
worked 
for 
me..
>
> 
Coiling 
In 
Pittsburgh
> 
Ben 
McMillen
>
>
> 
----- 
Original 
Message 
----
> 
From: 
Jim 
Lux 
<jimlux@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
To: 
Tesla 
Coil 
Mailing 
List 
<tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> 
Sent: 
Sunday, 
February 
10, 
2008 
12:08:07 
AM
> 
Subject: 
Re: 
engineers 
and 
scientists 
was 
[TCML] 
Wireless 
Transmission 
> 
Theory
>
>
> 
Ed
> 
Phillips
> 
wrote:
>>
> 
Hi
> 
Bill,
>>
>>
> 
Most
> 
engineers
> 
I've
> 
encountered
> 
are
> 
not
> 
like
> 
that
> 
in
> 
any
> 
way.
> 
They
> 
are
>>
> 
about
> 
physics
> 
and
> 
they
> 
will
> 
look
> 
at
> 
the
> 
world
> 
through
> 
the
> 
eyes
> 
of
> 
our
>>
> 
physical
> 
universe
> 
and
> 
not
> 
limit
> 
themselves
> 
to
> 
"any"
> 
theory.
> 
I
> 
of
> 
course
>>
> 
have
> 
met
> 
a
> 
few
> 
engineers
> 
stuck
> 
in
> 
their
> 
ways
> 
and
> 
nothing
> 
was
> 
going
> 
to
>>
> 
change
> 
them.
> 
But
> 
most
> 
are
> 
not
> 
like
> 
that.
> 
Don't
> 
stereotype
> 
engineers.
>>
> 
There
> 
are
> 
both
> 
engineers
> 
and
> 
physicist
> 
set
> 
in
> 
their
> 
ways
> 
and
> 
there
> 
are
>>
> 
both
> 
engineers
> 
and
> 
physicist
> 
with
> 
a
> 
brain
> 
to
> 
look
> 
further.
>>
>
> 
I
> 
figure
> 
I'll
> 
throw
> 
my
> 
words
> 
in
> 
before
> 
Chip
> 
kills
> 
this
> 
off.
>
> 
In
> 
my
> 
annual
> 
"career
> 
day"
> 
talk
> 
at
> 
my
> 
kid's
> 
schools
> 
I
> 
talk
> 
about
> 
what
> 
being
> 
an
> 
engineer
> 
is
> 
like..
> 
and
> 
how
> 
engineers
> 
differ
> 
from
> 
scientists.
> 
This
> 
is
> 
something
> 
I
> 
get
> 
to
> 
observe
> 
every
> 
day
> 
at
> 
work
> 
(JPL)
> 
and
> 
which
> 
interestingly,
> 
was
> 
also
> 
commented
> 
on
> 
by
> 
Steve
> 
Squyres
> 
in
> 
his
> 
book
> 
about
> 
the
> 
Mars
> 
Rovers.
>
> 
Obviously,
> 
it's
> 
not
> 
a
> 
Manichean
> 
thing
> 
with
> 
one
> 
or
> 
the
> 
other,
> 
more
> 
of
> 
a
> 
continuum,
> 
but
> 
a
> 
bimodal
> 
one.
>
> 
However..
> 
Scientists
> 
are
> 
driven
> 
by
> 
wanting
> 
to
> 
understand.
> 
Engineers
> 
are
> 
driven
> 
by
> 
wanting
> 
to
> 
do.
> 
The
> 
classic
> 
scientist
> 
might
> 
do
> 
experiments
> 
to
> 
better
> 
understand,
> 
but
> 
the
> 
goal
> 
is
> 
the
> 
understanding,
> 
not
> 
the
> 
doing
> 
the
> 
experiments.
> 
The
> 
engineer
> 
strives
> 
to
> 
do
> 
something,
> 
typically
> 
requiring
> 
some
> 
understanding,
> 
but
> 
there
> 
are
> 
lots
> 
of
> 
engineers
> 
who
> 
work
> 
totally
> 
empirically.
> 
Although,
> 
to
> 
me,
> 
what
> 
made
> 
engineering
> 
engineering
> 
(around
> 
the
> 
time
> 
of
> 
the
> 
Renaissance)
> 
was
> 
the
> 
change
> 
from
> 
doing
> 
it
> 
as
> 
a
> 
craft
> 
(do
> 
what
> 
worked
> 
before)
> 
was
> 
the
> 
use
> 
of
> 
a
> 
theoretical
> 
model
> 
to
> 
guide
> 
what
> 
you
> 
do
> 
next.
> 
For
> 
instance,
> 
I'm
> 
pretty
> 
impressed
> 
by
> 
what
> 
Roman
> 
engineers
> 
did
> 
2000
> 
years
> 
ago
> 
(aqueducts,
> 
bridges,
> 
the
> 
Pantheon),
> 
but
> 
I'm
> 
not
> 
totally
> 
convinced
> 
it
> 
was
> 
engineering
> 
in
> 
the
> 
modern
> 
sense.
> 
It
> 
might
> 
have
> 
been
> 
how
> 
medieval
> 
cathedrals
> 
were
> 
built..
> 
a
> 
collection
> 
of
> 
practical
> 
guidelines
> 
arrived
> 
at
> 
over
> 
many
> 
years
> 
of
> 
trial
> 
and
> 
error,
> 
without
> 
an
> 
understanding
> 
of
> 
why
> 
it
> 
works
> 
the
> 
way
> 
it
> 
does.
>
> 
Consider,
> 
for
> 
instance,
> 
building
> 
an
> 
aqueduct
> 
like
> 
the
> 
Pont
> 
du
> 
Gard.
> 
Sure,
> 
the
> 
Romans
> 
were
> 
able
> 
to
> 
achieve
> 
amazing
> 
feats
> 
of
> 
controlling
> 
the
> 
grade
> 
and
> 
roughness
> 
to
> 
get
> 
the
> 
water
> 
flow
> 
to
> 
work
> 
right.
> 
But,
> 
did
> 
they
> 
do
> 
this
> 
by
> 
applying
> 
experience
> 
(empiricism),
> 
essentially
> 
relying
> 
on
> 
trial
> 
and
> 
error.
> 
Or,
> 
did
> 
they
> 
understand
> 
hydraulics,
> 
and
> 
have
> 
some
> 
theoretical
> 
basis
> 
for
> 
knowing
> 
why
> 
to
> 
choose
> 
a
> 
particular
> 
slope,
> 
roughness,
> 
and
> 
channel
> 
width,
> 
from
> 
first
> 
principles.
>
> 
Likewise,
> 
consider
> 
the
> 
Pantheon
> 
in
> 
Rome:
> 
it's
> 
the
> 
largest
> 
self
> 
supporting
> 
dome
> 
in
> 
the
> 
world
> 
until
> 
Brunelleschi
> 
built
> 
the
> 
Duomo
> 
in
> 
Florence
> 
some
> 
1500
> 
years
> 
later.
> 
And
> 
it's
> 
still
> 
standing.
> 
An
> 
amazing
> 
feat,
> 
but,
> 
did
> 
they
> 
design
> 
it
> 
by
> 
analyzing
> 
stresses
> 
and
> 
figuring
> 
how
> 
thick
> 
to
> 
make
> 
the
> 
concrete,
> 
etc.
> 
Or,
> 
was
> 
it
> 
just
> 
built
> 
by
> 
scaling
> 
up
> 
earlier
> 
designs,
> 
and
> 
when
> 
they
> 
collapsed,
> 
making
> 
it
> 
bigger.
>
> 
An
> 
example
> 
of
> 
trial
> 
and
> 
error
> 
is
> 
pyramid
> 
building.
> 
The
> 
pyramid
> 
of
> 
Zoser
>
> 
in
> 
Maidun
> 
collapsed
> 
while
> 
the
> 
outer
> 
casing
> 
was
> 
being
> 
built.
> 
The
> 
pyramid
> 
at
> 
Dashur
> 
was
> 
being
> 
built
> 
at
> 
the
> 
same
> 
time
> 
(but
> 
started
> 
some
> 
10-15
> 
years
> 
later),
> 
and
> 
they
> 
thought
> 
the
> 
collapse
> 
was
> 
due
> 
to
> 
being
> 
too
> 
steep,
> 
so
> 
they
> 
reduced
> 
the
> 
angle
> 
midway
> 
up,
> 
producing
> 
the
> 
bent
> 
pyramid.
>
> 
Later
> 
it
> 
was
> 
apparently
> 
determined
> 
that
> 
the
> 
problem
> 
was
> 
more
> 
how
> 
the
> 
courses
> 
of
> 
stone
> 
were
> 
laid
> 
(it
> 
couldn't
> 
resist
> 
the
> 
compressional
> 
loading,
> 
and
> 
essentially,
> 
the
> 
weight
> 
of
> 
the
> 
top
> 
courses
> 
squished
> 
the
> 
bottom
> 
courses
> 
out,
> 
like
> 
a
> 
watermelon
> 
seed
> 
between
> 
your
> 
fingers),
> 
so
> 
later
> 
designs
> 
essentially
> 
had
> 
the
> 
courses
> 
sloping
> 
rather
> 
than
> 
flat.
>
> 
I
> 
don't
> 
know
> 
that
> 
pyramid
> 
architects
> 
actually
> 
figured
> 
this
> 
out
> 
by
> 
analyzing
> 
the
> 
forces,
> 
or
> 
by
> 
just
> 
doing
> 
some
> 
empirical
> 
experiments.
>
>
> 
_______________________________________________
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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