Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:28:04 -0700
From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)

Hi Chris,

I wasn't referring to the static gap. Just the basic mechanics of 
charging gap and main gap.

Take care,
Bart

Tesla list wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:38:19 -0500
> From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>
> The static gap is not part of the main rotary gap, and it is not
> designed to act as the main gap.  It will be essentially unquenched and
> will not be close enough to the rotary gap for the air currents to
> affect it.  The principle of the static gap in this case applies only to
> DC coils with a reservoir cap, and not AC coils.
>
> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:26 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
>   
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:51:34 -0700
>> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>>
>> I understand what your after there, but how will that affect the firing 
>> of the main gap? All in all, your going to find a speed of disc that 
>> will seem to work well. It's going to balance between the two gaps. I 
>> don't think "ion trails" are going to play much of a role (the spinning 
>> RSG has a way of preventing that). But, I think this will actually be a 
>> positive for you.
>>
>> There is also the approach of using two sets of rotating electrodes 
>> (large electrodes = large dwell = increased charge time per dwell, and 
>> small charging stationary electrodes for increased gap width of those 
>> electrodes), and then standard main gap electrodes (which would help 
>> quenching issues with increased bps). You could massively increase the 
>> number of charging electrodes in this fashion which I would expect to be 
>> on the outer portion of the disc with the main gap electrodes say 1/2" 
>> inward edge to edge (because there's more area for electrodes [for 
>> charging]).
>>
>> I'm just musing those ideas now that I've got a grasp on what your doing 
>> and what Steve has done (it's easy being an arm-chair cowboy!). I know 
>> you've already got it built. So go with that and let us know if it 
>> reacts. It does open up an interesting approach to switching of charging 
>> and firing energy.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Bart
>>
>> Tesla list wrote:
>>     
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:47:07 -0500
>>> From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>>>
>>> The point is that I WANT the remaining ion trails, and air cooling would
>>> remove them.  The gap will be firing initially about 5 times a second.
>>> I want this to happen at a relatively constant voltage.  But, after each
>>> primary firing, I want about 30 or so other firings to occur at around
>>> 700Hz at lower voltages.  Air cooling remove the ionized trails that
>>> would aid in this.
>>>
>>> Chris B aka. Crispy
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 21:22 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:47:39 -0700
>>>> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>>>>
>>>> Exactly right Chris, your first bang is your highest voltage arc across 
>>>> the gap. As the electrodes heat up, the arc voltage will decrease, but 
>>>> hopefully they will balance out on the high side. Thus, air cooling 
>>>> becomes important. RSG's have a natural air cooling mechanism. Static 
>>>> gaps require external cooling to achieve the same. But yes, any 
>>>> remaining ionized particles within the static gap will decrease the 
>>>> dielectric withholding voltage, and thus, reigniting the gap will happen 
>>>> at a lower voltage. Air cool the static gap to resolve this issue (I 
>>>> know, it's another motor on your watt limit). Just run a power cord from 
>>>> your neighboring dorm room!
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Bart
>>>>
>>>> Tesla list wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:06:42 -0500
>>>>> From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>> My concern with a design based on the heating of electrodes is that,
>>>>> when first turned on, the electrodes start off cool.  Therefore, the gap
>>>>> will initially fire at a higher voltage than after it heats up.  Do
>>>>> remnant ionized trails in static gaps have anything to do with increased
>>>>> propensity to fire, or am I completely lost?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Chris B aka. Crispy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:31 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:24 -0500
>>>>>> From: David Dean <deano@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 10 October 2007 08:46:06 pm you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> On yet another unrelated note,
>>>>>>> Does anyone have any feedback on my initial proposition of seriesing a
>>>>>>> static gap in the charging circuit to pulse power? 
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps a less than optimum static gap design would be the order of the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see a static gap with one electrode sharp and pointed and the other 
>>>>>> electrode flat.  A T.I.G. electrode and a tungsten disk. You need to observe 
>>>>>> polarity as some rectification will occur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point heats up lowering the firing voltage of the static gap allowing the 
>>>>>> ARSG to drain the storage cap further.  When the gap goes out it stars to 
>>>>>> cool raising the firing voltage while the storage cap is recharged. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The trick would be to get just the right angle and degree of sharpness so the 
>>>>>> heating cooling cycle will just track the storage cap charge cycle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> later
>>>>>> deano
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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