Re: [TCML] quench times again

["Chris Swinson" <list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Bart,

> > So it seems you are saying that even if the secodnary is shorted out, it 
> > will not change the transfer time. Though the tank voltage drops a lot 
> > quicker so something has got faster ?
> Yes, the ground strike caused the energy in the secondary to clamp down 
> and drain faster (the energy contained in the secondary at that moment in 
> time). If this occurred during the pri to sec transfer, then there is 
> still energy being coupled to the secondary. That energy will continue to 
> transfer at it's rate determined by the mutual inductance which is where 
> we derive the coupling from.


I think you are saying the total transfer time will be 100uS no matter what. 
The secodnary may output 90% of the tank energy in 10uS but it will take a 
further 90uS to discharge the other 10% of the tank cap. On this basis the 
transfer time is the same no matter what the secodnary is doing.





> > Also if the tank voltage has droped to the point where the spark gap 
> > turns off, then it still has to be faster ? Its in terms of 1st notch 
> > quench vs 4th notch.. If all the tank energy has been used up then the 
> > spark gap will just turn off, this has to be quicker than say no break 
> > out on the secodnary which will not drain the tank cap as fast....

> Yes, the quench time is faster (if the system is normally something longer 
> than 1st notch), but the rate of transfer remains the same.

> > So With different quench times, the tank cap has to have transfered 
> > energy faster as it will alter the quench point
> Ok, the total transfer time is based on the transfer rate and the number 
> of times this transfer occurs. If we shorten the number of transfers, the 
> total transfer time will be shorter. The rate does not. Terminology 
> differentiating these two separate aspects.


I think I look at it, that when the secondary sparks out, it drains the tank 
100%. going back to Richies figures I think it shows exactly what you are 
saying. Say 100uS form start to end. the secondary could burn up 90% in the 
first 10uS (like richies wave) but the rest of the cycles go a to a low 
level for a long time..

In terms of frequency, "bang to spark" time should be reduced.

I think I assume 100% energy is gone once the spark happened, I think I 
talked in too general terms to keep things easy which could not be helping 
matters... To the point that if it took 100uS to transfer all the energy 
(without spark break out) the waveform will just look like a slow falling 
damped wave...

If the secondary break out 90% of the energy goes in the first 10uS and then 
the next it takes 90uS to discharge the reaming 10%...

I was classing it as once the secondary breaks that's is, 10uS and job done, 
though if I actually got the hang of it, then this is not actually the 
case....

As for quench times, if the secondary does not break out, then it could take 
500uS to burn up the energy in losses before the spark gap quenches. In 
which case could be the 5th notch.

however, if the secondary does break out, chances are that the spark gap 
will quench at the first notch......

Chris




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