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Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)

To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:23:07 -0600 (MDT)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:27:29 -0700
From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)

Hi All,

My equations are not throwing in an efficiency factor, so they will be 
high.

Each of the inputs to my equation are related to output spark length. 
This equation is attempting to detect the power available to the tank 
circuit following a charging system and spark gap evaluation (a lot goes 
into the evaluation process).

The JF equation is totally dependent on input power, thus, the break 
rate and charging system is based on the losses associated with the 
measured coil and it's power source (the NST used) at 120 BPS. My 
equation can be considered an expansion to the JF equation. I am simply 
throwing in factors of break rates and energy, but remember it's based 
on VA, so it's not the actual real power. In a program (from a design 
before you build and measure process), VA is all you really have. There 
may be a 10% error due to that fact and even greater variation because 
efficiency has not yet to be installed in the RSG and Static Gap spark 
length outputs. I guarantee, the number shown will usually be higher 
than you'll achieve at this point in the revisions.

Take care,
Bart

Tesla list wrote:

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:08:56 -0500
>From: resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>
>
>Since Bart's equation does depend on both power and pulse rate, it should be 
>accurate.
>
>Best way is to hook up a DC rectifier, 50 meg HV resistor, and fire your 
>coil in single pulse mode.  This will provide accurate single pulse shots.
>
>Peak potential remains the same regardless of pulse rate, however, the spark 
>length "grows" considerably with high pulse rates due to residuals in the 
>area.
>
>D. Cox
>Resonance Research Corp.
>www.resonanceresearch.com
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:59 AM
>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>
>
>  
>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: H.S. J. <hsheltonj@xxxxxxxxx>
>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>
>>Well, Since we are on a roll with formulas, here is a more accurate 
>>formula for spark length given to me a while back by Bart:
>>
>>Spark Length (inches) = sqrt(VA) + sqrt(eJ x BPS x 1.263)
>>
>>Where:
>>VA = input volt amps = transformer effective input power.
>>eJ = effective cap energy in joules = 0.5 x C(tank) x eVp^2.
>>BPS = break per second.
>>eVp = effective cap voltage = x_vp*(1-pow(2.7182818,(-rsg_fr/rsg_t1))).
>>x_vp = transformer peak output voltage.
>>rsg_fr = rotary gap firing rate (1/bps).
>>rsg_t1 = time for cap to charge to one time constant based on cap size and 
>>transformer current.
>>
>>Hope that helps^^
>>
>>-Shelton
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:41:42 AM
>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:54:44 -0500
>>From: D.C. Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>To test the true peak output of a resonance transformer, it must be 
>>operated
>>in a "single-shot" mode.  I use 1 pulse every 120 seconds which gives any
>>residual ions time to clear the previous spark channel.
>>
>>The peak potential is then a function of the spark's distance between two
>>standard 1/2 inch dia. rod gaps.  I think chip has posted this information
>>in the archives for reference.
>>
>>In short summary:
>>
>>60 cm = 332 kV     70 cm = 382 kV     80 cm = 435 kV     90 cm = 488 kV
>>100 cm = 537 kV
>>
>>40 cm = 225 kV     30 cm = 172 kV     20 cm = 124 kV     15 cm = 102 kV
>>
>>Actually, you were around 560 kV output.  You can also check this value by
>>using the equation:
>>
>>Vsec = Vpri x 80% x SQR(Lsec/Lpri).  This equation is very close, usually
>>within a few percent.
>>
>>The peak potential is totally independent of the waveform.
>>
>>Dr. Resonance
>>
>>
>>Resonance Research Corp.
>>www.resonanceresearch.com
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:02 AM
>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:58:50 -0400
>>>From: Jonathon Reinhart <jonathon.reinhart@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>>
>>>Thanks.. I had no idea on that MV number...  What's the formula for that?
>>>
>>>On 6/28/07, Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:43:54 -0500
>>>>From: resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Subject: Re: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nice to hear you have your coil running properly.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, 46 inch streamers represent around 240 kV in Tesla coil service.
>>>>
>>>>Resonance Research Corp.
>>>>www.resonanceresearch.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:20 PM
>>>>Subject: Jonathon's 6" Coil (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:11:05 -0400
>>>>>From: Jonathon Reinhart <jonathon.reinhart@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>Subject: Jonathon's 6" Coil
>>>>>
>>>>>Hello everyone.  I read the post about people maybe not giving updates
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>on
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>their projects, etc. so I thought I'd give a little feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some of you have heard about, and some of you helped (thanks!) get my
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>coil
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>started a few years back, and a little bit of help lately with my RSG.
>>>>>Almost a year ago, before I went to school I built with the help of my
>>>>>dad,
>>>>>a pretty decent SRSG.   A week or two ago, I got it hooked up, after
>>>>>doubling my tank cap from 17nf  to 34uf.
>>>>>
>>>>>At first, my results were quite disappointing.  I was getting plenty 
>>>>>of
>>>>>bright sparks at the SRSG, but absolutely no output from the coil,
>>>>>which
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>I
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>had tuned to its previous (Segmented SSG) sweet spot.   I played and
>>>>>played
>>>>>with the rotation of the motor, but got nothing.  I was starting to 
>>>>>get
>>>>>worried, concerned that I had possibly blown one of my caps due to the
>>>>>SRSG
>>>>>being out-of-phase.
>>>>>
>>>>>Getting frustrated and ready to go inside for the night, I grabbed my
>>>>>primary tap and threw it on about 1/2 way in.  Keep in mind this
>>>>>primary
>>>>>is
>>>>>only about 10-11 turns anyway.  Turned off the lights, and threw the
>>>>>switch
>>>>>for my coil.  Hey!  About 4 inches of breakout.  So I knew it was just
>>>>>a
>>>>>matter of fiddling with it.  After playing and playing with the SRSG
>>>>>and
>>>>>the
>>>>>primary coil, I had set a new personal record for streamer length of
>>>>>46"
>>>>>to
>>>>>a (poorly) grounded point.  This only beat my previous record of 44 by
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>two
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>inches, but hey it's progress.
>>>>>
>>>>>Points for improvement have been noted, however.  When adjusting the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>SRSG,
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>keep getting longer and longer streamers, but then the safety gaps
>>>>>start
>>>>>firing.  I believe I have them set too conservatively far in.  I think
>>>>>I
>>>>>will open them up some.  Also, my topload is 4" aluminum dryer duct
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>around
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>standard-sized pie pans.  I have some 6" aluminum flexible duct work
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>(HVAC
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>style) that is more ridgid, and longer, so I can stretch it out around
>>>>>a
>>>>>larger  pizza-sized pie pan.
>>>>>
>>>>>Glad to be playing with ~0.75MV again :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Jonathon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________________________________
>>Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated 
>>for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>>http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
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