RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Moderator's note:

Hi Dave,

This discussion is getting rather long and strung out with back and forth
questions and disagreements.  It's getting difficult to follow for me and
probably others on the list.

Can you consolidate your hypotheses, evidence for them, and perhaps models
into one message?

Thanks in advance.

Chip


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:27:46 -0500
From: David Thomson <dwt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Tesla list' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)

Hi Colin,

> Thanks for the answers but you've missed the point of my 
> question (possibly due to lack of precision on my part, 
> possibly not). 

I think you simply missed my answer.

> I believe that you are claiming that the free air for a 
> considerable volume round a tesla coil (the diameter of this 
> zone must be many times the height of the coil if you're 
> going to get the long distance energy transfer you
> seek) has an E-field which is capable of sustaining a high 
> ion density, and that you can build a receiver which "taps" 
> the ions from one part of the field with the ion deficit 
> being repopulated by the tesla coil.
> 
> * Can we agree that this is broadly what you were claiming in 
> the quoted paragraph?

No, this is not what I said.  The E field only drives the mechanical
resonance of the electrons in the immediate vicinity.  However, each
electron then drives the electrons in its own vicinity.  This is how
mechanical resonance works for air molecules, too.

The E field is not reaching out into the room from the Tesla coil as a
coherent field.  Each electron has its own E field.  The result is that
mechanically excited electrons produce an E field wherever there is
mechanical electron resonance.  

> I was then asking you to respond to the fact that once you 
> get a little distance from a coil (one or more times the 
> height of the coil) the field lines start to bend down fairly 
> sharply to earth.  I believe this is inevitable because the 
> charge at the top of the coil has been pulled up from the 
> ground effectively forming a dipole.  

I disagree.  In standard electromagnetism, yes, that would be the case.
However, the physics of the third coil are primarily mechanical.  This is
where we have to stop because this is where you would need to see the two
types of charges and their associated geometry.  

> * Can we agree that this is the case? (The only way I can 
> imagine of this not being true is if you are going to claim 
> that the inverse square law or conservation of charge is broken.)

That is your line of thinking based upon only one manifestation of charge.
You see charge as a point particle that has to always obey Maxwell's
equations.  You cannot see the electron as particulate and having mechanical
properties in addition to its electrical properties.  Think of it this way;
if you have a bucket of beads and you push up from the bottom, there will be
a slight rise and then fall of the beads.  But if you find the resonance of
the beads in the container, the beads will bounce off each other and rise to
a greater height and stay there as long as resonance is maintained.

However, in the case of electrons, where there is mechanical resonance there
is also a local E field, which can be tapped and converted to
electromagnetic purposes.

> The strength of a dipole field is easy to calculate, dropping 
> off as 1/r^3, meaning it very quickly falls to negligible levels. 
> 
> Even if the rest of what you say is accurate (which I 
> dispute) this must mean there will be negligible E-fields 
> once you get any reasonable distance from the coil
> 
> * Agree?

You are correct when analyzing a single system.  However, once you start
mechanically oscillating electrons, each electron becomes its own system
with its own dipole field.  Each system becomes a power source for every
other system.  

> * Are you claiming that the ion field is made up of a mix of 
> positive and negative ions, plus possibly electrons, or just 
> a single type, or just electrons?

None of the above, really.  Let's leave this one alone for now.

> If you have a mix, then the obvious question is 
> 
> * what keeps them from just recombining?
> 
> If you don't have a mix, then for charge to be conserved you 
> must also be building up a store of the opposite charge at 
> some location.  
> 
> * Where is this location?

Maybe there is a completely different paradigm, which makes far more sense?

> Finally, there remains the still damning issue of collisions 
> with neutral particles will inevitably gives short lifetimes 
> and limited bulk motion for your ions.  
> 
> * How do you theorise this doesn't damn your scheme?

My direct experience already demonstrates to me that electrostatic resonance
does work at the energy scale of a Tesla coil.  It is now a matter of
replicating what I had done five years ago and properly quantifying the
process.  

Dave