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Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)

To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:59:24 -0600 (MDT)
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Resent-date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:59:24 -0600 (MDT)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:33:14 -0400
From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)

Bart,
     We install PLC systems where I work, but it is all completely over my 
head, as I am just a summer intern, and have not had any training in that 
area (I'm a mechanical engineering major, not electrical).  How much did you 
pay for all that equipment, I know the stuff we use isn't cheap.
Scott Bogard.


>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:57:18 -0600 (MDT)
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:42:47 -0700
>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>My VFD is pretty darn standard. I insert 220 VAC (or 240, whatever)
>single phase. The output of the VFD is 3-phase which is cabled directly
>to a 2HP 3-phase motor. The output is 230 VAC 3-phase. T1, T2, T3, and
>Ground (4-wires).  The VFD does happen to be controlled by a PLC, but
>this is not necessary. The only reason I use a PLC is to incorporate
>safety's into my control. The VFD outputs an error signal if something
>freaks out. The PLC detects the error and shuts down the coil. There are
>a few other misc. features which includes a low voltage dead man switch,
>cabinet safety's, alarm signals, etc... That's all PLC crap.
>
>The VFD itself is wired up to accept a 0 to 10mA signal that controls
>the speed from 0 to 500 Hz. I have a 10k ohm pot mounted to the control
>panel which serves to adjust the speed control. In the past, I have also
>ran the VFD with a binary input for 16 preset speeds. The speeds are
>simply entered into the VFD with the VFD pushbutton controls ( set the
>Hz of each speed). The rotary switch then selects a binary input and
>tells the VFD to run at SP2, SP5, SP10, (whatever). That was fine, but I
>find the pot variable adjustment the best for coils.
>
>I use an Altivar 31 VFD by Telemecanique. Telemecanique was once known
>as "not the greatest of VFDs". That has changed in the past 4 years. The
>company actually was revamped. Nowadays, their drives are probably the
>easiest to use and are now very reliable. Especially the Altivar 31
>series (versus the old Altivar 28 which was pure Telemecanique of old).
>
>3-phase motors are the most efficient of motors and VFD's allow us to
>use them. They are capable of forward, reverse, and variable speeds.
>Most elevators use them to get you to floor 99 and down to the basement.
>Isn't it interesting how smooth elevators are and when they reach a
>particular floor, you can "feel" them slow to a perfect stop. That is
>"all VFD" control. But elevators are simply 1 in 1000 applications. When
>it comes to motor control, 3-phase is industry standard and VFD's are
>their industry standard control module. In motor control, Allen Bradley
>is still top of line for VFD's. But the others now are right there with
>them in capability. The main difference is that industries are tied into
>a particular breed by the code they write. It would be an expensive task
>to change over to something else. So, they stick with what they are
>familiar with. I do the same. I understand that situation completely.
>
>Take care,
>Bart
>
>
>Tesla list wrote:
>
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:36:54 -0400
> >From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >
> >Bart,
> >     How exactly does your VFD work, is it some kind of PLC controlled
> >motor?  I originally intended to build an asynch, with a variable speed
> >motor, but my particular motor was not up to the task (it wouldn't keep
> >turning when the coil was turned on, I still am not absolutely sure why, 
>I
> >have theories though).  It was simply a vacuum cleaner motor attached to 
>a
> >dimmer switch, worked great when the power to the tank was turned off, it
> >would rotate between about 100 and 15000 RPM.  Your gap sounds like an
> >experimenters dream gap!
> >Scott Bogard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:19:00 -0600 (MDT)
> >>
> >>
> >>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:03:03 -0700
> >>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>
> >>Hi Scott,
> >>
> >>Your welcome. That's a program the newer coilers probably don't know
> >>about, but it's been around for a lot of years. There was a time when we
> >>all talked about this. Probably in the old archives somewhere. I
> >>personally am a 240 bps guy myself if running in sync.
> >>
> >>It's difficult to express why. Part of it is the spark channel building
> >>upon previous ionized streamers, part of it is the smooth running of the
> >>gap, and part of it is my previous expeditions of looking at the power
> >>cycle between the 90 degree voltage and current differentials as I
> >>compared 120 bps, 240 bps, etc.. However, losses were not considered
> >>during those simulations, so that is also a factor that has to be at
> >>least considered. In reality, there's not a lot of difference between
> >>120 and 240 bps. A simple 8 electrode single gap at 1800 rpm disc speed
> >>does wonders! Those were things I looked at several years ago. Hard to
> >>remember the details tonight. I was running sync at that time so this
> >>info was somewhat important to me.
> >>
> >>These days, I'm running VFD variable 3-phase. I love it! Probably won't
> >>go back to a sync gap simply because I love altering the break rate at
> >>the twist of my wrist (the sound of the sparks and gap is like revving a
> >>high performance engine!). Hard to express. When I'm rotating the disc
> >>fast, bystanders start "standing back" just from the sound. Every coil
> >>has a particular breakrate that produces a 1)smooth running coil and
> >>2)long sparks. There's no doubt in my mind about that. I've played
> >>enough with my VFD to realize that situation is real. Lately, the VFD
> >>has been my favorite toy. The same could be done with a DC motor of
> >>course, but with the VFD, I have the same effect with high efficiency
> >>(plus, I can do sync, preset speeds, or whatever I decide, which is why
> >>it's a favorite of mine). It's not limited to just one aspect of RSG's.
> >>
> >>Take care,
> >>Bart
> >>
> >>Tesla list wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:56:16 -0400
> >>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>>
> >>>Bart,
> >>>    Thanks, I see how bad that configuration is, evidently my gut
> >>>
> >>>
> >>instinct
> >>
> >>
> >>>was incorrect.  Thanks for the program, it is very neat, I'm sure it 
>will
> >>>come in handy.
> >>>Scott Bogard.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:28:54 -0600 (MDT)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:06:50 -0700
> >>>>From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Scott,
> >>>>
> >>>>A 6 electrode 180 Hz firing rate has always been looked at as likely 
>the
> >>>>worst of all cases. Haven't tried it myself, but there is an old DOS
> >>>>program (1991) by Robert Jamison you might want to run that looks at
> >>>>various configurations, and yes, the 6 electrode case is there. It's a
> >>>>simple .exe file. It's at my web site if you want to download and run.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.classictesla.com/download/rotjit.zip
> >>>>
> >>>>Take care,
> >>>>Bart
> >>>>
> >>>>Tesla list wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:19:19 -0400
> >>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>Subject: RE: 180 BPS synch?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Nobody responded to my message (not even a "yes, it's been done" or a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>"no
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>won't work"), so I'm reposting it on the assumption either nobody got
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>it,
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>or
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>nobody took the time to read it and respond, thanks.
> >>>>>Scott Bogard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Subject: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>>>>>Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:05:02 -0600 (MDT)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>>Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:31:13 -0400
> >>>>>>From: Scott Bogard <teslas-intern@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Subject: 180 BPS synch?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Greetings all,
> >>>>>>   I was curious, what would the results be of a synchronous motor
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>(1800
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>rpm) being used with 6 electrodes, for 180 BPS.  My thinking is that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>arc
> >>>>>>put out would be slightly more random due to uneven firing voltages,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>like
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>an
> >>>>>>asynch gap, but prevent dangerous resonant rises, due top it's 
>tenancy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>inevitably repeat a defined patter over and over again (also 
>different
> >>>>>>"phasing" may effect output, but I don't think it would ever settle 
>on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>a
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>phase it cannot operate with, or one that would give optimum power).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>Has
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>anybody tried this, what do you guys think (I just finished building 
>a
> >>>>>>120/240 BPS sync, so I don't think I will be building another soon,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>but
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>maybe somebody else can try it).  Thanks.
> >>>>>>Scott Bogard.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >http://newlivehotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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