# RE: Flat coils & undamped waves (was Wire Length)

```Original poster: "David Thomson" <dwt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Mike,

>    So you are saying that if I wind two spiral coils....the first
> with 16g magnet wire, and one magnet ribbon coil...the same thickness
> of the 16g wire, but 5/16th in wide....they will resonate at the same
> frequency?

No, that isn't what I said.  If you take a roll of round 16 gage wire and
flatten half the roll, then wind two flat spiral coils each with the same
length of wire, the resonance will be the same.

As you flatten the wire, the windings get closer together, but the coil also
becomes thicker and smaller diameter.  Even though the capacitance
increases, the inductance decreases.  The net effect is a wash.  If there
was a net gain in resonance, there would be a violation of energy
conservation as the output energy could be greater than the input energy.

I know this for a fact.  I have wound such coils and applied the Wheeler
equation for flat spiral coils and it was spot on.  Like everybody else
searching for free energy, I found it couldn't happen just by changing the
coil geometry.

Dave

> When it comes to winding flat spirals with ribbon wire, there is no
> advantage from the extra self-capacitance because the flat wire acts
> like several coils wound in parallel, thus the inductance is decreased
> accordingly.  Calculating the frequency of the flat spiral using the
> Wheeler inductance formula for flat spirals made from round wire works the

> same for flat spirals made from ribbon wire.
>
> Dave

```