[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Capacitors



Original poster: "Peter Terren" <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Frank
You have a lot to say about the old ways being best. I am not at all sure that Tesla coilers will agree with using mica caps, cardboard formers and beeswax. I have used Mica caps for a TC with 4 foot sparks, but I bet very few other people have. You conveniently neglect one factor which is self healing with the film foil caps, which is a huge advantage for Tesla stuff. There is plenty of technology out there and perhaps much that has been forgotten probably deserves to be along with Kraft paper. Capacitor engineers design for a huge range of caps and for Tesla coils include Maxwells or equivalent which are used for many commercial coils. The large number of caps also reduces the individual corona inception voltage and (I believe) is also the method of construction of the commercial caps internally. Your opinion about wax caps being the source of the wonderful sound should be easily able to be tested with a good sample size in A/B comparison in a double blinded manner as is done scientifically. The semiconductor vs vacuum tube is a hoary old debate which is dying out. Valves have a different type of distortion in the higher harmonics if I recall than semiconductors. They may look cool and retro but few people are scientifically convinced of valves superiority. I can show you an article from another restorer who feels that replacing the caps is the first thing to do in a restoration so opinions differ. Perhaps sound quality can change due to the huge tolerances of the old caps (?-50%, +100%)
Have you ever made a TC?

Peter


----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Capacitors


Original poster: Frank <fxrays@xxxxxxxxxx>

There has been much discussion about the "right" cap for a SGTC or even a SSTC.

Having been in electronics for the past 45+ yrs and restoring early electrical and electronic items as well as being taught by various folks who had been in the electrical/ electronic business since spark gap days, there is much that has been forgotten about capacitors (or condensers in the old days). The advent of solid state has all but rendered HV caps and design obsolete and much has been forgotten.

What is known is a cap has a certain "Q" and subsequent frequency range it is effective in. Outside this range, the cap effectively is an open circuit and has little or no effect on a circuit.

High power circuits of frequencies say from 100 khz to 30 mhz require not only caps of high voltage ratings but also large surface areas to handle the RF currents generated.

A RF system can have much higher currents circulating than the DC or AC voltages present. A good example of this is the early medical Tesla systems. he AC side is typically 1 to 5 KV at 1000 to 250 ma yet the RF side of the machine can generate 5 to 10 amps of RF current! The caps in these machines is typically a stacked mica sheet type with copper shim stock as the plates. The typical cap is 3"L X2"W X1"T. The capacity is low, around .01 to .05 ufd but the current capacity is very high!

Modern dielectrics have made large value caps in small packages but they have also made them worthless in large power applications because the plate area is so small, the cap cannot handle large currents and will either overheat and/or break down.

Additionally, any dielectric is frequency sensitive and proper selection is necessary for the appropriate frequency it will be used in.

Tesla discovered this in makes his experiments. Enameled wire, shellac and varnish were among a few of the common insulators he found worthless for his coils.
These same materials are commonly used in coil making today.
Tesla found mineral oil, kerosene and the best , beeswax were far superior in insulating his coils. He even stated a properly designed and wound coil could be made of bare wire using no insulation what so ever.

Varnished wood or cardboard is a superior coil form over PVC or ABS pipe. Selection of varnish is also very important. Today, most folks will use a varathane type varnish which is not an effective insulator for a TC. A good tung or linseed oil or marine spar varnish will yield much better results. An added bonus those finishes are much more resistant to oxidation (ozone) and UV radiation as compared to the varathane plastic finishes and will not crack with use.

Now, by far the best cap for a TC is a good old fashioned large sheet stacked mica cap with at least 0.005" thick metal sheets. Unfortunately, they are almost impossible to make anymore as the materials are too expensive. They are voltage limited and need to be under oil for voltages typically over 5 KV.

The second best are the old mica transmitting caps, fairly easy to find but also horribly expensive.

So, what next? As the group has found, there is predominantly one mfgr and style of cap that works for a TC. Since it is not a HV type, a bank is made of series/ parallel combinations to obtain the correct value.

This bank has one great impact on the coil, the large number of caps will yield an effective large plate area to handle the RF currents generated to make the coil work.

If you fall outside this particular cap, you find the bank overheats and fails, sometimes rather rapidly.

Example, consider the following caps with identical values, voltage not important as we will drive them with a signal generator.
0.1 mdf non polarized
0.1 mfd tubular wax foil
0.1 mfd mylar or polystyrene
0.1 mfd disc ceramic
0.1 mfd silvered mica

They are in order as to the best frequency for operation from low to high.

0-20kc
5kc-5mc
.2mc- 10mc
1mc-50mc
20mc-400mc+

The first two caps also exhibit an inductive effect.

The disc in my favorite for high frequency noise blocks from induction coils or spikes.

The paper and non polarized are the best for audio to standard IF frequencies.
The mylar is good for most ham band, CB and FM sets.
The last 2 are for uhf and VHF and above RF front ends.

They will not interchange for operations.
The wax caps are still the best for the old tube radios, just cannot be beat and one of the secrets to the wonderful sound. Unfortunately they are not made anymore and the "modern" substitutes work but the sound quality cannot be repeated. The radios sound flat.
I salvage old wax caps always for restorations!

Electrolytics are a DC sensitive cap and have a very limited frequency range of operation, basically 0 to 20 khz. Higher frequencies tend to puncture the dielectric and short the cap out. Their best use is as filters for a DC power supply or DC switching supply. They will not work at higher frequencies and tend to short and electrically look like an open circuit to the system while they are still good.

Thanks, Frank