Re: Household NEUTRAL is not really a return path

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: Trev <michaelshepard@xxxxxxxxx>


There seems to be some confusion on grounding and on
the neutral perhaps i may clear up.  I am a liscensed
journeyman electrician in the state washington so you
can rest assured this information is straight out of
the texts and expirience from actually putting this
stuff in.  Neutrals (the white or grey wires) carry
the unbalanced load back from the hot sides of the
circuits.  They do carry the current back and serve as
a reference as it is also grounded at the main service
or Transformer. Maybe you've noticed that typically
there are only mains that run out to houses along with
a bare cable that gets grounded at the transformer
used as the neutral.  the earth's ground is used as a
return.  That's why they put in ground rods.  the
earth's resistance at about 10' or so varies but is
typically around 25 ohms.  that's a code requirement
for the ground rod or else you have to put in two.
new homes have what is called a Ufer ground.  they
bond (ground) the main service which feeds everything
to a piece of rebar in the foundation which gives a
much more solid point of conductivity back to
earth...which i am lead to beleive transmits back to
the power station through a very conductive earth.
It's a bigger circuit that uses our planet instead of
copper wire. Neutrals are returns.  Neutrals are also
grounded to earth ground potential.  as far as
backfeeding rf currents using coils and these
experimental technologies these other guys sound like
the experts, but from a building construction
standpoint on grounding....grounding solidly to your
water pipe or anything connected to your house might
not be a good idea as these higher voltages and lower
currents could quite possibly backfeed every neutral
and ground and even the circuit feeds themselves
headed upstream from where you are grounded.  I would
suggest completely separate grounding rods or ufer
grounding methods of some sort or isolation
transformers on their own protected circuits separated
from anything that conductively speaking is connected
to your house.
--- Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Original poster: "David Rieben"
> <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Miles,
>
> I believe that you're suppose to hook up all of the
> input side of
> your HV transformer to the mains 60
> Hz ground at your electrical box. The base of the
> secondary coil
> should be a seperate RF ground and should be
> connected via heavy
> guage copper cable or strap to the ground driven
> copper rod and
> possibly water pipes that you refer to. That has
> also
> been the subject of confusion for me too in the past
> as the mains 60
> HZ ground and the dedicated RF ground are both
> established by driving
> one or more 8 ft. long copper-clad grounding rods
> into the soil.
> Common knowledge is that you should seperate and
> isolate these two different grounds from one another
> and yet they are both established in identical
> fashion
> with only whatever distance that you happen to place
> your RF ground away from the mains 60 Hz ground
> between them. It does
> seem that they would be "elec-
> trically" the same, dosen't it? In the past I have
> tied these
> "seperate" grounding systems together for the
> "superground" that you refer to and it seemed to
> work
> okay. However, now I go ahead and keep them sepe-
> rate because that seems to be the general consensus
> of thought among
> those much smarter than myself on
> this matter. Here's the way that "I" do it:
> Mains             external metal framing of all
> control
> 60 HZ             panel components (variacs,
> ballast,
> ground:            line filters, ect) the external
> tank casing
>                        of the pole pig transformer
> and
> the                       external frame casing of
> the ARSG motor
>
>
> RF ground:      strike ring shield of the primary
> coil
>                        and the base of the secondary
> coil.
>
> One thing you sure "don't" want to do is to not
> establish
> any RF ground at all and to only use the 60 HZ mains
> house ground as the only ground for your entire
> Tesla system if your
> coil is anything larger than a couple hundred
> watts in power. If you use only the house mains 60
> hz ground for a
> medium or large sized Tesla system, you may
> very well fry sensitive electronic components in you
> house that are
> plugged in by the backfeed of RF transients and
> can even cause open receptacles in your house to
> flashover
> and possibly start a fire! And that's the voice of
> experience
> speaking here! Bottom line: make sure that you DO
> esta-
> blish an RF ground, whether or not you tie it in
> with your
> mains ground, and place the RF ground as close as
> possible to the
> base of the secondary coil.
>
> Take care and be safe,
> David Rieben
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list"
> <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:32 PM
> Subject: RE: Household NEUTRAL is not really a
> return path
>
>
> >Original poster: mileswaldron@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >I am a little confused about this issue too. I am
> currently using my
> >household breaker box ground as HV ground, plus I
> have pounded a 15
> >foot long copper rod into my backyard that I
> attached to my water
> >pipes using heavy wire, and use that for the
> secondary coil ground
> >(RF ground?). Is this a good idea, or should I use
> my breaker box
> >for HV ground and separate the Tesla Coil ground
> from that? Or
> >should I join them all together and make a "super"
> gound, and run
> >everything together into that?
> >Groundedly Confused,
> >Miles Waldron
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > Original poster: Yurtle Turtle
> > >
> > > Maybe he's talking about thee phase?
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > --- Tesla list wrote:
> > >
> > > > Original poster: "Mccauley, Daniel H"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >PS.: in common household AC, the neutral is
> not
> > > > really a return path
> > > > >either, but a terminal to collect all three
> phases
> > > > and add them
> > > > >together. By definition, being neutral, the
> > > > neutral does not carry any
> > > > >current (beyond the untility pole, that is).
> > > >
> > > > Uh . . . no! The neutral *IS* the only return
> > > > path. All 115VAC
> > > > current flowing to your ligh ts,
> > > > appliances, and other 115VAC devices flows in
> both
> > > > the HOT and NEUTRAL.
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>



		
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