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Re: 8 kHz Tesla Coil



Original poster: "Gerry  Reynolds" <gerryreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Jim,

OK, so what is the definition of skin depth for round conductors with no proximitry effects or is there one???

Gerry R.

Original poster: Jim Lux <jimlux@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

At 07:28 AM 9/30/2005, Tesla list wrote:
Original poster: "Gerry  Reynolds" <gerryreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Bart,

I'm not sure what is being said about it giving 37 ohms for my coil, but if Rac is defined as the effective resistance when runing AC current thru it, the AC resistance can never be less than the DC resistance. Skin depth is defined (for the benefit of others) as the depth of the conductor from which if you throw away the interior conductor and keep the exterior conductor and calculate the DC resistance from the resulting area, you will have the Rac of the wire for the frequency of the AC current (no proximity effects included yet). In other words:

Rac/Rdc = wire_cross_sectional_area / (wire_cross_sectional_area - area_internal_to_the_skin_depth)

NO... This is NOT true. It will give you the wrong answer, except in certain limiting cases (i.e. diameter >> skin depth)


It's a nice conceptual model, but mathematically incorrect. It's even "approximately" right, but it's incorrect to cast it as an equation, because for situations of great interest to coilers, it's wrong.



So, for skin depth (sd) greater or equal to the radius (r) of the wire, Rac = Rdc. For sd less than r:

Rac/Rdc = pi*r^2 / (pi*r^2 - pi*[r-sd]^2) which reduces to:

Rac/Rdc = r^2 / (r^2 - [r-sd]^2)

Wrong... only true for r >> sd (e.g. R > 5-10 times sd)

Skin depth (as a number) only applies to an infinite flat plate, and is defined as sqrt(lambda/(pi*sigma*mu*c))

Or, more familiarily = sqrt(1/(f*pi*sigma*mu))
mu = mu0 * murelative
murelative = 1 for nonmagnetic materials
mu0 = 4e-7 *pi
sigma is the conductivity


Here's an example: Assume Copper (sigma = 5.8E7 S/m), and 100 kHz... sd is about 0.21 mm

r = .5 mm  (i.e. a 1mm diameter wire)

By your equation {Rac/Rdc = r^2 / (r^2 - [r-sd]^2)} one gets Rac/Rdc = 1.51

However, if one uses the tables in something like Reference Data for Radio Engineers, one gets a correction factor Rac/Rdc = 1.2 or 1.3

it's true that for secondary wire that's say, AWG 24 (20 mil diam = about .25 mm radius), you're getting close to where the skin depth is comparable to the radius, so Rac is approximately equal to Rdc (within 5%)

It's also true that for large primary conductors, like 1/4" OD tubing (i.e. r = 3mm), the model of a thin tube of diameter D and thickness sd is reasonably accurate. (at least, the error is <5%)

However, those 1-2 mm diameters (approx AWG18 - AWG12) where both approximations are most inaccurate are also those sizes likely to be contemplated by high power coil builders who are most concerned about efficiency.