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Re: Help with analyzation theory
Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Adam,
I had to guess at a few things, but MandK gives:
--------------
Mutual Inductance Program V3.1
Copyright (c) 1998, 1999, 2000 by Mark S. Rzeszotarski, Ph.D.
Flat Spiral Primary Coil Geometry
Primary coil inside diameter (inches)= 13.750
Primary coil outside diameter (inches)= 27.250
Number of primary coil turns = 10.000
Wire diameter (inches)= .3750
Solenoidal Secondary Coil Geometry
Secondary coil diameter (inches)= 10.750
Secondary coil height (inches)= 54.500
Number of secondary coil turns = 1253.000
Secondary coil wire diameter (inches)= .0403
Calculational Results
Primary coil inductance in microhenries: Lp = 66.80
Secondary coil inductance in microhenries: Ls = 76873.06
Figure of Merit (square root of Ls/Lp) = 33.92
Primary coil wire length in feet = 53.60
Secondary coil wire length in feet = 3526.38
DC secondary resistance in ohms: 22.93
Secondary coil distributed capacitance in picofarads: 22.33
(Medhurst formula, assumes one end of secondary is grounded)
Mutual Inductance Results
Position is the secondary coil bottom wire position in inches
above the bottom wire of the primary coil.
A negative value means the bottom wire of the
secondary is below the bottom wire of the primary.
A positive value means that the bottom wire of the
secondary is above the bottom wire of the primary coil.
M = Mutual Inductance in microhenries
K = Coefficient of Coupling: K = M / square root ( Lp x Ls )
Position M K
.000 326.504 .1441
.500 306.910 .1354
1.000 287.706 .1270
1.500 269.201 .1188
2.000 251.588 .1110
2.500 234.969 .1037
3.000 219.383 .0968
3.500 204.829 .0904
4.000 191.280 .0844
4.500 178.695 .0789
5.000 167.023 .0737
5.500 156.209 .0689
6.000 146.197 .0645
6.500 136.931 .0604
7.000 128.357 .0566
7.500 120.422 .0531
8.000 113.077 .0499
8.500 106.275 .0469
9.000 99.974 .0441
9.500 94.134 .0415
10.000 88.716 .0391
10.500 83.688 .0369
11.000 79.018 .0349
11.500 74.676 .0330
12.000 70.637 .0312
Operating Characteristics
Ctoroid is the added capacitance of the top terminal.
Fres is the resonant operating frequency in kilohertz.
Cpri is the required primary capacitance in nanofarads.
Zpri is the primary surge impedance in ohms.
Zsec is the secondary surge impedance in ohms.
Qsec is the secondary coil quality factor Q.
Rac is the secondary coil RF resistance in ohms.
Ctoroid(pF) .0 5.0 10.0 15.0 20.0 25.0 30.0 35.0
Fres(kHz) 121.5 109.8 101.0 94.0 88.2 83.4 79.4 75.8
Cpri (nF) 25.69 31.45 37.20 42.95 48.71 54.46 60.21 65.97
Zpri(ohms) 51.0 46.1 42.4 39.4 37.0 35.0 33.3 31.8
Zsec(ohms) 58678. 53039. 48765. 45381. 42617. 40303. 38329. 36619.
Qsec 513.3 485.0 462.3 443.5 427.4 413.4 400.8 389.7
Rac (ohms) 114.3 109.4 105.5 102.3 99.7 97.5 95.6 94.0
-----------------
The maximum K is 0.14 but the varies with exactly where you tap the primary.
E-Tesla6 gives:
http://hot-streamer.com/temp/Adam-001.gif
Fo = 76.7 kHz but I assumed the top terminal center would be 12
inches above the secondary and the primary and coil base were 12
inches off the ground.
------------------
E-TESLA V6.13C July 26, 2003
Grid Size = 500.000000
Scale Multiplier = 1.000000
Terminated Coil
Ceiling Distance = 260.000000
Wall Distance = 130.000000
Primary Height (Inner Turn) = 12.000000
Primary Inner Diameter = 13.750000
Primary Outer Diameter = 27.250000
Primary Height (Outer Turn) = 12.000000
Strike Rail Height = 0.000000
Strike Rail Diameter = 0.000000
Secondary Base Height = 12.000000
Secondary Diameter = 10.750000
Secondary Length = 54.500000
Secondary Turns = 1253.000000
Secondary Wire AWG Size = 18.000000
Secondary Inductance (mH) = 77.089995
Terminal-1 Height (center) = 88.500000
Terminal-1 Cord Diameter = 8.000000
Terminal-1 C-C Diameter (toroid only)= 34.000000
Terminal-2 Height (center) = 88.500000
Terminal-2 Cord Diameter = 0.000000
Terminal-2 C-C Diameter (toroid only)= 0.000000
Top Voltage = 1.000000
Pass Ccalc (pF) Change Fcalc (Hz)
.........
178000 C=55.82611 Err%=0.000081 F=76718.91
------------------
ScanTesla gives:
------------------
ScanTesla V-7.40 July 1, 2005 Terry Fritz
C1 7.500000e-008 7.508000e-008 1.000000e-009
R1 2.000000e+000 2.000000e+000 5.000000e-004
L1 4.000000e-005 1.000010e-004 -1.000000e+000
L2 7.709000e-002 7.709000e-002 1.000000e-003
K12 1.000000e-001 1.500000e-001 5.000000e-003
R2 3.910000e+002 3.910000e+002 1.000000e+000
C2 5.500000e-011 5.500000e-011 1.000000e-013
C3 1.200000e-011 1.200000e-011 1.000000e-013
R3 2.200000e+005 2.200000e+005 1.000000e+003
T1 0.000000e+000 1.000000e-003 -1.000000e-006
Vrail 0.000000e+000
VCpri_init 2.376000e+004
BPS 1.200000e+002
DwellTime 0.300000e-003 0.300000e-003 1.000000e-005
Current_Limit 4.500000e+004
CoilPower_Limit 1.500000e+006
Goal Type 1
ScanTesla V-7.40 July 1, 2005 Terry Fritz
Goal = 8.706697e+000 Maxium Load Energy
Model Number = 963
Goal Number = 214
Cprimary = 7.500000e-008
Lprimary = 6.314699e-005
Rprimary = 2.000000e+000
Coupling = 0.145000
Csecondary = 5.500000e-011
Lsecondary = 7.709000e-002
Rsecondary = 3.910000e+002
Cload = 1.200000e-011
Rload = 2.200000e+005
BPS = 120.000000
Dwell (T1) Time = 0.300000e-003
Ilprimay Maximum = -777.390648
ICprimary RMS = 26.279855
VCprimary Maximum = 23712.247625
VCsecondary Maximum = -392775.129002
Coil Power = 2540.419200 Primary Bang Energy = 21.170160
Load Power = 1044.803622 Load Bang Energy = 8.706697
Leader Length (in) = 77.6
Primary F0 = 73132.964376 Secondary F0 = 77292.928813
Load Energy Rise Time (uSec) = 44.8
------------------
It comes out with a very low coil power of only 2500 watts. Either I
typed a number in wrong, the program calculated something wrong, your
BPS needs to be much higher, your cap needs to be much higher....
Maybe all this will help ;-) Beware I may have given the programs
the wrong data....
Cheers,
Terry
At 02:28 PM 7/20/2005, you wrote:
I go through the number crunching on my:
http://www.hot-streamer.com/adam/bigass_coil/design.pdf
page. Not much in the way of explanation, but you can
probably follow if you have a basic understanding.
Adam
--- Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Original poster: "Adam R." <arabraxas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> I've been working with coils for awhile now, but am
> still just a
> beginner's student in EE and am working to
> understand the circuit of
> the coil, but am running into some bumps in the road
> so I am
> wondering if someone can point me in the right
> direction. For
> brevity's sake, I won't rattle off too much off what
> I'm stuck on.
> I'm just asking the "whys?" of what is going on.
>
> First, I don't quite understand how the
> i(t)=C(dv/dt) can get so high
> (ie hundreds of amps). I also don't fully understand
> the nature of
> the 60hz to high frequency tank circuit.
>
> What's throwing me off is how I'm looking at the
> circuit in the
> manner of an LC, the cap/indu reactance, and etc.,
> I'm trying to
> piece things together, but they don't seem to fit,
> especially when I
> add the spark gap. The math equations keep forming
> odd numbers, such
> as 13269 amps! I'm not trying derive everything, but
> just again, see
> how things (mathematically) fit together.
>
> I don't want the theory "spoon fed" to me, just if
> someone could
> start pointing me in the right direction as to what
> I should
> research. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>