Re: Capacitor Help

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: "Barton B. Anderson" <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Malcolm,

The cap should be in series with primary.
The sparkgap and safety gap are parallel to the transformer.
That is what "I" should have shown (my fault) and is the preferred 
method among most list members.

The 3 terminal vs. 2 terminal safety gap confusion is due to the type 
of hookup used. The tranny floating or not is the key difference.

For reference, so you understand my hookup, here is how I do it:
(view with fixed width font)

I tie one side of the tranny to RF ground (not floating).
The inner primary turn is at RF ground and at the same potential as 
the bottom secondary.
Requires only 1 HV feed.
Requires only 2 terminal safety gap.

                                                 sparks <------ Top 
Terminal ------> sparks
                                                                      S
                                                                      e
                                                                      c
                                                                  o
hv side                                                          n
   xfmr >---|---------- cap ----------- primary ------|              d
           |-------------------------O sparkgap O----|               a
            |------------------------O safety gap O---|               r
RF Gnd                                                |               y
  xfmr >----------------------------------------------|-------------- 
xfmr >----------------------------------------------|---------------> RF ground


Here is the 3 terminal setup.
Tranny outputs float at their respective voltages.
Requires 2 hv feeds.
Requires 3 terminal safety gap.

                                                 sparks <------ Top 
Terminal ------> sparks
                                                                      S
                                                                      e
                                                                    c
  xfmr >----------------------------------------------|               o
  xfmr >----|---------- cap ----------- primary ------|              n
           |-------------------------O sparkgap O----|               d
            |------------------------O safety gap O---|               a
                                           O                          r
Rf Ground >--------------------------------|------------------------> y


Both circuits perform the same function.
Both circuits have the same safety's built in.
I hope that helps clear up some confusion.

Take care,
Bart

Tesla list wrote:
> Original poster: "MalcolmTesla" 
> <mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Bart would this diagram be more accurate?
>
> cap <-----O spark gap O-----> primary
>    |                       |
>    | <-----O   O   O-----> |
>                |
>                RF Ground
>
> Not sure if that will come out right but the safety gap is wired in parallel
> with the spark gap except the safety gap has three terminals and the middle
> one goes to RF ground.
>
> Thanks
> Malcolm - KC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tesla list" <mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxx><tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxx><tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Capacitor Help
>
>
> > Original poster: "Barton B. Anderson" 
> <mailto:bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx><bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > Hi Malcolm,
> >
> > Tesla list wrote:
> >
> > >Original poster: "MalcolmTesla" 
> <mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > When using a strike ring, wire it to RF ground which is separate from
> > > > your mains house ground. I use copper pipe hammered into the ground
> > > > for RF ground. The bottom secondary is also attached to RF ground.
> > >
> > >Owww this throws another wrench in the works.  A copper pipe hammered
> into
> > >the ground hey...  hummm is this the only way?
> >
> > Yes. Throw down a counterpoise, and treat it as RF ground. Try to
> > find something if possible to connect the counter poise to if
> > possible like a water main or maybe a grounded structure (building).
> > The counterpoise should be a wire mesh (as opposed to a solid plate).
> >
> > >I still don't understand.  How does the safety gap in parallel with the
> > >regular spark gap help any unless it's connected to something else as
> well?
> >
> >
> > Maybe a picture:
> >
> > Cap <-------O spark O------------> Primary
> >      |         gap              |
> >      |                          |
> >      |-----O  safety  O---------|
> >                gap
> >
> > Both are connected to the same point electrically.
> > Both discharge the cap energy through the primary to RF ground.
> > Because the energy travels through the primary inductance, the energy
> > is distributed through the impedance of the primary,  secondary, and
> > well, the entire system after the cap. This impedance is better for
> > the cap and the normal discharge mode for the cap in this application.
> >
> > In a configuration where the cap is discharged to ground (or worse,
> > directly across the cap), there is a very fast and high current
> > discharge, and it's that level of discharge that can be hard on the cap.
> >
> > Both achieve the same goal, but we have a nice easy path (already
> > built it in) to remove the cap energy (so why not use it?).
> >
> > Take care,
> > Bart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >