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Re: capacitance of homemade caps

Original poster: BunnyKiller <bunikllr@xxxxxxx>

Steven.... not to disallusion you but consider the following ideas... cuz coiling isnt all that simple... its easy but not simple..
to be honest you tried too fast too early and too soon ( not enuf study of T - Coiling) to do it correctly and to expect satisfactory results ... dont give up on your intentions of creating a working coil... it takes time its not a simple thing to do...

here are some basic design considerations you "should seriously consider"

1: what is your main power transformer source capable of??? MOTS? NSTS? Pole Piggies? and what voltage will they produce on the secondary side? 3000VAC 12,000VAC 30,000VAC?

2: what size is your secondary? 1.5 X 12 or 12X 60? or something in between?? this depends upon the voltage AND power your transformer can deliver... PS the secondary is wound with ONLY 1 layer from bottom to top.... this is what I gathered from previous posts... that you had wound the secondary with multiple layers... and looking at the pictures you posted ...it does look as if you did do multiple layers.... maybe the picture doesnt show things proper but it does look like multiple layers.. this wont work...

3: what size of capacitors are you willing to pay for ( actually this is the end result) and this is the most expensive part of the coil....
and plus the most ABUSED part of the coil.... if you had 1000$ to spend on a coil, spending 500$ on the caps is reasonable... if you spend minimal on the caps EXPECT minimal from your coil and minimal can be absolutely NOTHING!!!!

workmanship kinda sorta counts in T-Coiling... if you are going to put forth an effort in "quality design" there are 2 areanas to do it in
1: the primary winding spacing and 2: the secondary winding.... these 2 items are the most unforgiving when it comes to "craftmanship" in building... you can fudge on the spark gap ( being just 2 bolt heads spaced apart the right distance to an exquisitely designed SRSG...)
you can fudge on the top load (being a Coke can or a professionally made toroid) but I do have to state... primary spacing ( and turn number) secondary size and winding.. and cap quality... is the end result of a good T-Coil recipe... there are things you JUST CANNOT be cheap on.... read some of the 300+ or so web sites on the Tesla Coil web site listings Check out the sites on the Tesla Coil Web Ring....
lots of sites lots of pictures lots of theory to learn but it will be helpful more than asking quetions here and being disputed on your actions...

it took me nearly a year to read, learn and prototype my first coil to perfection... once I learned that I did the " hyperjump" to piggie powered coils... even tho 80% of the people on here said not to I did it anyway and I ended up with the BIGPIG coil BUT I took the time to READ READ and READ ( at that time there was only 150 Tesla Coil Web sites now there are over 700) what everyone else had to say to express opinions on and where they messed up on... I studied their designs and saw the differences in those designs and came to the conclusion that there is a "standard" ratio that needs to be confined to... I just modified my intentions to those ratios with the power avaialable and designed the coil I have now in my possesion...

it works well as far as my intentions are.... 10 - 14 foot streamers lots of noise and 1 hell of a final expenditure.... but thats what I wanted you play.. you PAY !!!

and after all this time all I can say is I learned a POOP load of electronic know how ( LC LRC RC Pulse rates Avg wattage peak J etc) hell I didnt even know what a Joule REALLY was untill I go involved on this list ... I have learned more from this list than I ever could have in 4 semesters of college level EE.

there is a serious amount of ( BORG) ;) collective knowledge here than one could imagine.... take advantage of it but be humble in the process.... knowledge is good but without humility it can be dangerous....

Scot D



Tesla list wrote:

Original poster: "Steven Steele" <sbsteele@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

forget it. it's just something i thought i'd do if i could. I cewrtainly don't need it. I just got my MMCs today anyway. plus I think i'm just gonna start the whole darned thing over cuz it's beginning to seem like a lost cause with my curren, multilayered TC. I don't even know what i'm doing anymore! The whole thing is stressing me out so instead of trying to figure this one out on my own, i'm gonna start over with Dr. Resonance's M-20 because I know that works.
Then I don't know what the heck i'm gonna do after that.

                   Steven Steele
by the way, here's some pics of my stuff, including the caps:

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/customsteele/pics/
















----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: capacitance of homemade caps


Original poster: "Malcolm Watts" <m.j.watts@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

On 7 Apr 2005, at 8:50, Tesla list wrote:

> Original poster: "Steven Steele" <sbsteele@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> I've tried using  function generator and an o-scope. the function
> generator doesn't have enough voltage to charge the caps. Don't worry,
> I won't plug it into the wall. ;) I think I'll just wrap the wire
> aroudn the pipe. :) Thanks.

What exactly do you mean by "charge the caps"? If you are expecting
them to be charged up to some DC voltage forget it. A function
generator puts out LV AC. At this point it might be helpful if you
post a picture of the circuit you are trying to implement and some
photos of the equipment you are trying to build. A picture speaks
louder than partial descriptions. Again I think some basic electrical
theory would be rather helpful to you.

Malcolm

>      Steven Steele
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> To:
> <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:04 AM Subject:
> Re: capacitance of homemade caps
>
>
> >Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >Hi Steve,
> >
> >One "can" measure capacitance and inductance with just a scope.  But
> >it is not at all simple.  You pulse it and watch to see how fast it
> >discharges across a resistor.  I don't think it is worth trying
> >unless you have someone there that knows the technique well...  Best
> >to look around for someone that has a meter that just "tells" you
> >such things...  Needs a signal generator and some good knowledge of
> >impedances...  It is just too messy for a first time scope user...
> >
> >You have mentioned 833Hz which seems way way too low...  Maybe like
> >83300Hz...  MMCs are real easy since it is just printed on the side
> >of the cap ;-)))  Might double check the time and voltage scales on
> >the scope...
> >
> >Don't ground your coil to the AC wall plug!!  That ground is great
> >for 60Hz stuff, but terrible at say 83kHz!!!  you might fry
> >everything on the circuit.  Ground the coil to a little ground rod
> >which is like 1000X better!!  cold water pipe or copper drain pipes
> >are great too.  Higher frequencies just don't like to travel in the
> >normal household grounding that was never made for such high
> >frequencies.
> >
> >There are some folks that "flush" some bare wire down the toilet to
> >get to the sewer pipes which are very well grounded...  Sort of
> >"extreme", but "electrically" sound ;-))  Might not be good at the
> >top floor of a tall building ;-))
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >         Terry
> >
> >
> >
> >At 06:13 PM 4/6/2005, you wrote:
> >>Thanks. I am indeed already getting  some MMCs, I just think it
> >>would be cool to have it running off  the strorag boxes. :) Seen on
> >>this website: www.angelfire.com/weird2/customsteele/pics/ Also, I've
> >>got an o-scope with abuilt in signal generator at my school, but I
> >>cant get it to do anything with the box caps. I maintain, perhaps
> >>stupidly, that my caps have a minimum voltage requirement and the
> >>function generator simply can't reach that. I could be wrong, but I
> >>don't think so. :)
> >>                                   Steven Steele
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>